You have commented 339 times on Rantburg.

Your Name
Your e-mail (optional)
Website (optional)
My Original Nic        Pic-a-Nic        Sorry. Comments have been closed on this article.
Bold Italic Underline Strike Bullet Blockquote Small Big Link Squish Foto Photo
Olde Tyme Religion
Pope on Charlie Hebdo: There are limits to free expression
2015-01-16
[TBO] Pope Francis said Thursday there are limits to freedom of expression, especially when it insults or ridicules someones faith.
We probably need a papal nonsense category.
Francis spoke about the Gay Paree terror attacks while en route to the Philippines, defending free speech as not only a fundamental human right but a duty to speak ones mind for the sake of the common good. But he said there were limits.
If there are limits then someone defines the limits. Therefore the speech is not "free" but "allowed," which is subject to change at whim.
By way of example, he referred to Alberto Gasparri, who organizes papal trips and was standing by his side aboard the papal plane.

If my good friend Dr. Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch, Francis said, throwing a pretend punch his way. Its normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.
So the Pope whipped out his rosco and blew Alberto away on a plane full of people? Oh. It was just a pretend punch. That's what those Moslems did to all those people in Gay Paree, right?
Many people around the world have defended the right of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo
...A lefty French satirical magazine, home of what may well be the majority if the active testicles left in Europe...
to publish inflammatory cartoons of the Prophet Muhammed in the wake of the massacre by Islamic bully boyz at its Gay Paree offices and subsequent attack on a kosher supermarket in which three gunnies killed 17 people.

But recently the Vatican and four prominent French imams issued a joint declaration that denounced the attacks but also urged the media to treat religions with respect.
Treating religions with respect is a matter of taste. Being disrespectful nowadays earns you a social or even a legal penalty. The auto-da-fe is gone. Being disrespectful to Islam results in frothing at the mouth, probably widespread apoplexy, and, of course, murder. What logically justifies premeditated murder? If Islam offends me am I entitled to mass murder Moslems?
Francis, who has urged Moslem leaders in particular to speak out against Islamic extremism, went a step further when asked by a French journalist about whether there were limits when freedom of expression meets freedom of religion.

Francis insisted that it was an aberration to kill in the name of God and said religion can never be used to justify violence.
But he just did that.
But he said there was a limit to free speech when it concerned offending someones religious beliefs.
... which would mean that murder is "understandable," which leads to "condoned."
There are so many people who speak badly about religions or other religions, who make fun of them, who make a game out of the religions of others, he said. They are provocateurs. And what happens to them is what would happen to Dr. Gasparri if he says a curse word against my mother. There is a limit.
Right. To understand is to forgive. So even though it's against divine and human law to murder people, if you understand the motivation it's forgiven. Right, Herr Himmler?... The ghost sez he quite agrees, and could you turn the heat down a little.
In the wake of the Gay Paree attacks, the Vatican has sought to downplay reports that it is a potential target for Islamic bad boys, saying it is being vigilant but has received no specific threat.

Francis said he was concerned primarily for the faithful, and said he had spoken to Vatican security officials who are taking prudent and secure measures.
Did he say anything to the Swiss Guards?... Oh. Wait...
I am worried, but you know I have a defect: a good dose of carelessness. I'm careless about these things, he said. But he admitted that in his prayers, he had asked that if something were to happen to him that it doesn't hurt, because I'm not very courageous when it comes to pain. I'm very timid.

He added, I'm in Gods hands.
I think that faithful are probably praying for a miracle about now.
Posted by:Fred

#9  Compare wid WAFF [ + prior MSM-Net Artics] > [CBC.com] MORE STATE POWER, NOT [More] FREE SPEECH, THE LIKELIEST RESULT FROM WE-ARE-CHARLIE RESET.

Direct andor indirect rise of [Secular Socialist-led?] NEAR-VS-FULL TOTALITARIANISM = "SOVIETISM"? and NOT just in France or EU either???
Posted by: JosephMendiola   2015-01-16 21:08  

#8  Starting to think TW infiltrated Loyola.
Posted by: Shipman   2015-01-16 17:13  

#7  Pope Francis said Thursday there are limits to freedom of expression, especially when it insults or ridicules someones faith.

Yeah, and my faith involves being a lapsed Catholic agnostic -- and you, sir, recently called my ilk evil.

Hypocrite is the nicest thing I can call you, so I'll stop there.
Posted by: Anice Nim   2015-01-16 17:03  

#6  The Jewish Sanhedrin convicted Jesus of treason, as I understand it, and the Romans crucified him. The next time a Jewish messiah was proclaimed (Bar Kochba in 125CE, the third Jewish-Roman war), the revolt he led resulted in the Jewish population in the Holy Land dropping from millions to a few thousand, the rest having been killed or sold into slavery.

The Romans and other pagans had a long tradition of god-human matings, and many of whose offspring were even more humble than a carpenter/preacher. The Jews, on the other hand, could not conceive of God mating with a woman -- the only other recorded direct creation of humans was that of Adam (from dust) and Eve (from Adam's rib). Religious mockery was not the issue at question in Jesus' case.

Finally, were Jesus not condemned and crucified, he could not have died, been buried, and arisen on the third day to demonstrate his divinity. So the Pope has to be glad it happened, and grateful to the instruments thereof for so thoroughly fulfilling their ordained roles, however painful it was at the time. As do all believing Christians.
Posted by: trailing wife   2015-01-16 16:37  

#5  Somebody tell Gasparri that I don't respect his right to set limits on my rights and if he takes a swing at me I'm gonna swing back. I have great respect and admiration for the Catholic Church but this comment makes me proud to be a Protestant.
Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305   2015-01-16 12:23  

#4  So I guess the Pope is OK with the Romans crucifying Jesus. After all, he mocked their religion by claiming to be the son of an all powerful God.

It was the Jewish religious authorities, not the Romans. If you're gonna do snark, at least try to be knowledgeable about the topic.

That said, there is something to be said about exercising self-control. If I responded to every comment I see here in the Burg from the mouth-breathers, I'd have been stripped of my mod duties and banned years ago (not to mention having calluses from typing...)
Posted by: Pappy   2015-01-16 12:05  

#3  So I guess the Pope is OK with the Romans crucifying Jesus. After all, he mocked their religion by claiming to be the son of an all powerful God.
Posted by: Albert Sproing4814   2015-01-16 11:56  

#2  Is it a great god or a lesser god that can handle 'free expression' (part of the gift of free will)? And one who knows the true nature in which it is rendered?
Posted by: Procopius2k   2015-01-16 08:40  

#1  Some Christians are apparently trying to hitch a ride on islamofascism like a remora would hitch a ride on a shark.

Sometimes religious belief can lead to a total disintegration of basic morality and decency. This is an example, unfortunately.

Christopher Hitchens on the attack on Danish cartoonist Kurt Westergaard, this was before the election of Pope Francis:

"These people are saying the grandfather (Kurt Westergaard) and granddaughter were the authors of their own attempted assassinations. These are some of the same people who say that if I don't believe in God I can't know what morality is. They've just dissolved morality completely into relativism by saying actually, occasionally, carving up grandfathers and granddaughters with an axe on New Year's Eve can be okay if it's done to protect the reputation of a seventh century Arabian man who heard voices. "
Posted by: Elmerert Hupens2660   2015-01-16 05:57  

00:00