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Home Front: WoT
Snowden leaves Hong Kong for Moscow
2013-06-23
More details from the Guardian to follow the Post story below. Anyone surprised? Anyone?
The NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden has flown out of Hong Kong, where he had been in hiding since identifying himself as the source of revelations on US surveillance programmes, despite a US request for his arrest.

The 30-year-old had previously said he would stay in the city and fight for his freedom in the courts. But the Hong Kong government confirmed that he left on Sunday, two days after the US announced it had charged him with espionage, saying documents filed by the US did not fully comply with legal requirements.

It also said it was requesting clarification from Washington on Snowden's claims that the US had hacked targets in the territory.
So perhaps Snowden was a hot potato for the territory...
Snowden had been at a safe house since 10 June, when he checked out of his hotel after giving an interview to the Guardian outing himself as the source who leaked top secret documents.

Hong Kong's decision to allow him to leave
...alternately, that they told him to leave...
comes a day after the US sought to turn up the pressure on the territory to hand him over, with a senior administration official telling the Washington Post: "If Hong Kong doesn't act soon, it will complicate our bilateral relations and raise questions about Hong Kong's commitment to the rule of law."
As noted in our other article, Hong Kong should indeed act according to the rule of law. It would be a nice example for their masters in Beijing. But that doesn't mean they fall over themselves to comply with American demands, it means they follow the extradition treaty.
Sunday's statement from the Hong Kong authorities said: "Mr Edward Snowden left Hong Kong today [June 23] of his own accord for a third country through a lawful and normal channel.

"The US government earlier on made a request to the HKSAR [Hong Kong special administrative region] government for the issue of a provisional warrant of arrest against Mr Snowden. Since the documents provided by the US government did not fully comply with the legal requirements under Hong Kong law, the HKSAR government has requested the US government to provide additional information so that the Department of Justice could consider whether the US government's request can meet the relevant legal conditions.

"As the HKSAR government has yet to have sufficient information to process the request for provisional warrant of arrest, there is no legal basis to restrict Mr Snowden from leaving Hong Kong.

"The HKSAR government has already informed the US government of Mr Snowden's departure.

"Meanwhile, the HKSAR government has formally written to the US government requesting clarification on earlier reports about the hacking of computer systems in Hong Kong by US government agencies. The HKSAR government will continue to follow up on the matter so as to protect the legal rights of the people of Hong Kong."

According to the South China Morning Post, Snowden boarded an Aeroflot flight to Moscow, although the newspaper said Russia was not his ultimate destination.
It will be if Vlad wants it that way...
It suggested he might go to Ecuador or Iceland -- having cited the latter as a possible refuge in an interview with the Guardian.

However, reports from Moscow indicate that Havana would be his next port of call, with the ultimate destination either Caracas in Venezuela or Quito in Ecuador.
Wherein he will learn the definition of a "bird in a cage"...
The South China Morning Post said the Russian embassy in Beijing would neither confirm nor deny he was on a flight to Moscow and the Russian consulate in Hong Kong declined to comment.

Dmitry Peskov, spokesman for Russian president Vladimir Putin, said: "I don't [know if he's planning to stay in Moscow]. I heard about the potential [arrival] from the press. I know nothing."

On whether Moscow would still consider a request for asylum from Snowden: "Every application is considered so it's standard procedure ... We are not tracing his movements and I know nothing."

US authorities could not be reached for comment.

WikiLeaks tweeted to say that it had "assisted Mr Snowden's political asylum in a democratic country, travel papers and safe exit from Hong Kong".
Posted by:Steve White

#30  and has handed them over to not just the ChiComs but also (this is really mind-boggling) Putin's anti-American gangster regime?

Left wing bullshit propaganda, in the house.
Posted by: Hupuque Bucket2093   2013-06-23 23:26  

#29  You guys are being played - and by a silly little adolescent and his ridiculously self-aggrandizing left-wing hack pseudo-journalist.

Has any of you bothered to consider that Snowden took FOUR laptops filled with clues to our sigint techniques - and has handed them over to not just the ChiComs but also (this is really mind-boggling) Putin's anti-American gangster regime? And you guys call yourselves patriots? Please...

Oh, and did you bother to note that Snowden contacted his bumboy at the Grauniad over a month before he began working at NSA? Malice aforethought, anyone? Or that he headed immediately with his four laptops not to Iceland but to CHINA?

AYFKM?

Don't be so g-damned naive. This foolish little kid is scum.

I know y'all hate Obama and can't bear the thought that maybe, possibly, the ol' Kenyan Marxist mooselim has turned out to be far more ruthless - and effective - against the jihadis than W ever was, but really, stop being so stupid. Snowden is a pawn in a chess match whose subtleties far exceed his or his moronic admirers' grasp.

You're being played.
Posted by: Lex   2013-06-23 22:36  

#28  Snowden was a contractor with some sysadmin privileges. I'd be amazed if the Chinese and the Russians don't already posses a deeper understanding of the capabilities of the systems he interacted with than Snowden himself. I'm not seeing the harm to national security.
Posted by Classical_Liberal

Exactly! Unlike other recent events, while the regime PR machine spins wildly, no bodies of dead Americans have turned up yet.
Posted by: Besoeker   2013-06-23 19:43  

#27  C_Liberal, says I'm not seeing the harm to national security.

That all depends on who/what you consider to be the threat to national security. This regime considers the Tea Party to be the primary threat followed by the NRA and conservative Republicans.

Given that it's easy to see this as a threat to the security of the "elite" facists in charge.

Posted by: AlanC   2013-06-23 18:28  

#26  Snowden was a contractor with some sysadmin privileges. I'd be amazed if the Chinese and the Russians don't already posses a deeper understanding of the capabilities of the systems he interacted with than Snowden himself. I'm not seeing the harm to national security.
Posted by: Classical_Liberal   2013-06-23 17:24  

#25  Basically we're hit upon the horns of a dilemma: we have an intelligence system that we need to use but also need to not have used against us.

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.
Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain   2013-06-23 17:12  

#24  AP, I'm not yet sure what I think of Snowden, BUT,I do know that if he was all about aiding the "enemy" he wouldn't have announced all this to the press.

If he really believes that the gov't is rapidly becoming a police state based on the NSA and other current news, how would he have acted differently?

Step 1 - warn the public and make a fuss;
setp 2 - run for your life.

Sounds as reasonable as any other scenario to me.
Posted by: AlanC   2013-06-23 17:03  

#23  Yes they are, Snowy. Our adversaries and enemies know that our signals, data, and traffic analysis are extensive and far reaching. They do not have nearly this capability. However, they also know that our top so-called leadership does not read Sun Tzu, and does not know an OODA loop from a hula hoop.

We have to gather data on our enemies and adversaries. It is in the interest of our survival as a nation. However, when you start using these intelligence capabilities for your own domestic political ends, and especially when it is discovered, it does threefold harm.

First, it destroys basic trust by the citizens (not people) of the US toward their govt;

Secondly, it gives our enemies and adversaries knowledge of our capabilities and what we know;

Thirdly, it gives our enemies a means of attacking and weakening the security of the US and its citizens.

Snowden may have inadvertently did some good in exposing the way the govt violated the rights and trust of its citizens, but he also did great harm in our legitimate responsibility of gathering intelligence.

There may be a remote possibility that things may be put to rights, but the US has been seriously wounded by other revelations by Snowden.

Snowden's action is a very sharp double edged sword that cuts both ways.
Posted by: Alaska Paul   2013-06-23 15:31  

#22  AP, if the O administration were a collection of agent provocateurs what would they do different?

They're finding new and interesting ways of ineptly getting into fights with the people they've been saying are more moral than us for the last forty years.
Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain   2013-06-23 14:57  

#21  Remember that disinformation is just as important than information. Snowden has, in some ways, the upper hand on the O administration. Yes, they do not want him in court, but O admin would ahem bend the rules, if need be.

I am sure that Snowden has worked these contingencies and has a hole card with his information, so a hit on him will not eliminate later release of more information.

You can bet your boots that Snowden is getting lots of help from either the Russians or Chinese, or both. Cat is out of the bag.
Posted by: Alaska Paul   2013-06-23 14:45  

#20  All of this in order that Snowden can install new batteries in Vlad's Super Bowl transmitter/decoder ring? Sounds a bit far fetched to me.
Posted by: Besoeker   2013-06-23 13:34  

#19  another comment:
Snowden's Aeroflot flight to Havana passes through US airspace. Will Federal authorities allow wanted man to fly over US or make plane land?
Posted by: 3dc   2013-06-23 13:34  

#18  in the comments:
WikiLeaks has issued a brief profile of Sarah Harrison, the WikiLeaks staffer believed to have flown with Snowden.
Posted by: 3dc   2013-06-23 13:29  

#17  Do they have restaurants or food stores before customs in the Moscow airport?
If not the boy is going to get hungry and thirsty really fast.
If they do and he doesn't yet have rubles can he buy anything?
Posted by: 3dc   2013-06-23 13:14  

#16  you just know, though, that it would be OK to imprison HIM in Gitmo, right, Obama/Holder?
Posted by: Frank G   2013-06-23 13:12  

#15  try the sushi
Posted by: Frank G   2013-06-23 13:10  

#14  Update
Edward Snowden asks for asylum in Ecuador: live updates
Posted by: tipper   2013-06-23 13:00  

#13  Drat, I should have put quotes around 'good' in the first post. I'm being sarcastic.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain   2013-06-23 12:50  

#12  It appears that he has given no one in China information that would label him a traitor.

You don't know that,

That he's going to a place where US spying helped hinder their support for a group of terrorists in neighboring countries should be a big hint.
Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain   2013-06-23 12:47  

#11  He can tell them all about how that evil spying the US did hurt their attempts to help the strong upstanding moral rapists/kidnappers/terrorist communists on the side of good in Colombia.
Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain   2013-06-23 12:44  

#10  He will come to Caracas for the waters and stay for the free gas and Cuban interwebs.
Posted by: Shipman   2013-06-23 12:44  

#9  Speculation is Snowdens trail is Moscow to Havana to Caracus Venezuela as his last stop.
Posted by: Cliter Shons9974   2013-06-23 12:21  

#8   Who or what do we have that's worth it to the Russkis so they would trade Snowden back to us?

Syria?
Posted by: SteveS   2013-06-23 12:08  

#7  Consider this move also as another biatch-slap from Putty to The Won.....
Posted by: USN, Ret.   2013-06-23 11:26  

#6  As far as anyone knows, Snowden has given up only enough information to let the Americans know the that the socialist Obama regime is spying on every detail of their life.

It appears that he has given no one in China information that would label him a traitor.

The hard drives on his 4 laptops are no doubt encripted. No doubt only he knows how to get past the encription of his data.

But you will not hear that from the Obama Regime.
Posted by: Winky Sproing5899   2013-06-23 11:20  

#5  Even if he does, it will be a political disaster putting him on trial.
Posted by Charles

Correct! The current subverters in Washington have no desire to see Eddie come home. They couldn't stand the competition.
Posted by: Besoeker   2013-06-23 11:09  

#4  Nothing
Posted by: European Conservative   2013-06-23 11:04  

#3  Good move by Putin. Who or what do we have that's worth it to the Russkis so they would trade Snowden back to us?
Posted by: Penguin   2013-06-23 10:27  

#2  Unless Obama kidnaps him back from wherever he lands, Snowden isn't coming back. Even if he does, it will be a political disaster putting him on trial.
Posted by: Charles   2013-06-23 10:23  

#1  Moscow? a real traitor? Or convenience, that'l put him on the list.
Posted by: Redneck Jim   2013-06-23 09:54  

00:00