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Home Front: Culture Wars
Obamacare: Asks Doctors to Ask Patients If They Own Guns Before Treating Them
2013-01-16
According to a background briefer provided by the White House, President Barack Obama is asking doctors to help deal with guns. Here's the relevant passage:

PRESERVE THE RIGHTS OF HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS TO PROTECT THEIR PATIENTS AND COMMUNITIES FROM GUN VIOLENCE: We should never ask doctors and other health care providers to turn a blind eye to the risks posed by guns in the wrong hands.

  • Clarify that no federal law prevents health care providers from warning law enforcement authorities about threats of violence: Doctors and other mental health professionals play an important role in protecting the safety of their patients and the broader community by reporting direct and credible threats of violence to the authorities. But there is public confusion about whether federal law prohibits such reports about threats of violence. The Department of Health and Human Services is issuing a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits these reports in any way.

  • Protect the rights of health care providers to talk to their patients about gun safety: Doctors and other health care providers also need to be able to ask about firearms in their patients' homes and safe storage of those firearms, especially if their patients show signs of certain mental illnesses or if they have a young child or mentally ill family member at home. Some have incorrectly claimed that language in the Affordable Care Act prohibits doctors from asking their patients about guns and gun safety. Medical groups also continue to fight against state laws attempting to ban doctors from asking these questions. The Administration will issue guidance clarifying that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit or otherwise regulate communication between doctors and patients, including about firearms.
    Good Luck With That, Mr. Zero
    • Posted by:Crailing Slineting8346

    #21  Well they also ask aliens who enter the U.S. whether they are engaged in acts of terrorism or moral turpitude.
    Posted by: European Conservative   2013-01-16 23:43  

    #20  Makes perfect sense to me - iff the Doctors don't ask, anti-sovereign, ex-Superpower, "Globalist" Amerikka won't qualify for aid from the OWG NAU.

    ZZZOOOOOOOMMMGG, THE OWG + OWG NAU WON'T GIVE US ANY $$$ - D **** NGED NATIONALISTS!
    Posted by: JosephMendiola   2013-01-16 23:40  

    #19  "Went in for a drivers license renewal today and they asked all of us if we were mentally ill or had ever been in a mental institution or in jail."

    WM, I've never been asked that for my driver's license, but if I were, the answer would be "Sure! We were called to the jail all the time when I was in the rescue squad. Lots of locked and barred doors - you don't want to go there." ;-p
    Posted by: Barbara   2013-01-16 21:06  

    #18  And we all know the DMV sells driver info.... so...

    We need to hear... does your president have a legal US birth certificate?
    Posted by: Water Modem   2013-01-16 20:30  

    #17   Procopius2k - that question was asked on the license renewals today.
    Posted by: Water Modem   2013-01-16 20:29  

    #16  Went in for a drivers license renewal today and they asked all of us if we were mentally ill or had ever been in a mental institution or in jail.
    Posted by: Water Modem   2013-01-16 20:27  

    #15  Nice they don't ask about masers and lasers.
    Posted by: Water Modem   2013-01-16 20:04  

    #14  Dr.: Do you keep firearms in your home?

    Patient: Do you believe in the 2nd Amendment and our Constitution?

    Dr.: Any answer other than a YES might lead the patient to seek another doctor.
    Posted by: JohnQC   2013-01-16 17:06  

    #13  However, you can't ask if they're illegally in the country. Remember doctor-patient confidentiality means that the doc can't tell the parents, let alone the local prosecutor [can you say Carnal Knowledge Mr. Prosecutor?], when an underage girl is pregnant, but the doc is to tell the government you have something completely legal and specified in the Constitution.

    It's all about power, no principle involved.
    Posted by: Procopius2k   2013-01-16 16:41  

    #12  swksvolFF has it. This is exactly what has happened in the pediatric community, where pediatricians and pediatric nurses are being asked (required) to ask questions of the young'ens so as rat out their parents.

    This happened in the Soviet Union; indeed it was considered a mark of honor to inform on your parents. Though I think the population had a rather different word for it -- 'stukach'...
    Posted by: Steve White   2013-01-16 15:47  

    #11  If your doctor asks about your Guns, flex your biceps and say yes!
    Posted by: Bright Pebbles   2013-01-16 14:47  

    #10  My response (were anyone to ask) is "nunya."

    As in "Nunya goddam business. Are you planning which homes to rob?"
    Posted by: Barbara   2013-01-16 14:27  

    #9  Q: Do you sleep well at night?
    A: No, not usually. I'm a very light sleeper.

    Q: How often to you awaken at night?
    A: Generally 4-5 times.

    Q: What do you do during these periods?
    A: I go for a pee, look out the window, etc.

    Q: Why do you look out the window?
    A: I check the motion sensor floods, the wire, general security, things of that nature.

    Q: Do you own firearms?
    A: Yes.

    Q: Do you own more than one firearm.
    A: Yes, several, I forget how many.

    Q: Do you keep them in your primary residence?
    A: Yes.

    Q: Do you keep them loaded?
    A: Yes, what good are they unloaded?

    Thank you for your responses. We'll be referring you to Dr. Smith, the head of for Mental Health Department for additional questions.
    Posted by: Besoeker   2013-01-16 14:18  

    #8  They may not ask you as-so-far, but they will ask the young children; most likely when the parent is not with the child - like at school when the nurse checks for head lice or more effective one-on-one situation. Think, "Before I take your temperature to see if you are ill, you may have become infected by someone in your family handling a gun. Now, you wouldn't want me to not tell you the truth, so tell me the truth so I can treat you correctly - did you are your parents handle a gun?"
    Posted by: swksvolFF   2013-01-16 14:17  

    #7  If my doctor asks me about guns, I will politely tell her it's none of her damn business.
    Posted by: Rambler in Virginia   2013-01-16 14:02  

    #6  
    Posted by: Au Auric   2013-01-16 13:51  

    #5  you can see where this is going. I can.
    Very easy to see where this is going, using health care providers to oppress people, a la the old USSR.
    Perhaps a way to civilly respond to this is for all health care providers to report every single patient they have in these words: "Patient, &/or patient's parent(s) or legal guardian(s) either admits owning firearms, denies owning firearms, or will not respond to my question about ownership of firearms, and I am not sure whether or not the patient, &/or patient's parent(s) or legal guardian(s) is telling the truth, lying or withholding information. I am submitting this to higher authorities for their review."
    --- EMR (electronic medical records) should make this bit automatic in every patient chart for every visit.
    --- The authorities would have their system crash in 24 hours if the great majority of health care providers did this.
    Posted by: Anguper Hupomosing9418   2013-01-16 13:12  

    #4   if they have a young child or mentally ill family member
    --- How many law enforcement officers does THAT apply to?
    A former head of the American Psychological Association who has published widely had this to say 2 weeks ago:
    Unlike the classifying and unpacking of craziness, modern science has shied away from unpacking and classifying evil. The two are separable: One can be crazy, evil, neither or both.

    Plenty of people are both. Crazy people commit somewhat more violent crimes per capita than non-crazy people, but most crazy people are not evil... we must face the facts about the possibility of changing what is crazy and changing what is evil. I have spent most of my life working with mental illness. I have been president of the world’s largest association of mental-illness workers, and I am all for more funding for mental-health care and research — but not in the vain hope that it will curb violence.

    While revising five editions of my textbook on abnormal psychology, I have found that drugs and therapy offer disappointingly little additional help for the mentally ill than they did 25 years ago — despite billions of dollars in funding. And there is zero promise that any developments I am aware of will help curb the violence that mentally ill persons commit.

    As for progress on restraining or rehabilitating evil people, the past record and future promise are even more dismal. I know of no development that has much reduced recidivism or violence or done more to identify violent offenders in advance than was in place a generation ago.


    I conclude from all this that progress in reducing violence through either helping the mentally ill or curbing the impulses of violent, non-crazy people will be very slow in coming, perhaps even fruitless.
    --- He does go on to advocate stricter gun control despite his reservations, but his principal point still stands, that identifying 'threats of violence' is of very little use. "Direct and credible threats" are nearly always determined ex post facto.
    Posted by: Anguper Hupomosing9418   2013-01-16 13:04  

    #3  We are not required to ask; this is saying that we are not prohibited from asking.

    It's the slippery slope, which is getting more slippery and is sloping more sharply.

    Pediatricians are already mandated to ask about certain issues either by state laws or by their professional society. You can see where this is going.

    Example: I am not 'required' to use the EMR at my institution, but my institution gets extra money if I do use it to check off certain items (I electronically reviewed a patient's allergies, medications, etc). Guess how that works out in the end.

    Again, you can see where this is going. I can.
    Posted by: Steve White   2013-01-16 12:54  

    #2  This doesn't look like it asks doctors to collect gun info, per se. Nor does it seem to require you to answer. For now. It does allow them to do so and seems to place such conversation outside patient confidentiality though.
    Posted by: Glenmore   2013-01-16 12:44  

    #1  Doctors already have to ask about seatbelt wearing and other bullshit with Obamacare. Why not guns? In fact, why not have to report to a doctor for weekly confession under Obamacare? He will then report you to the IRS treasury agents that are stationed there and have you arrested and/or fined appropriately.
    Posted by: DarthVader   2013-01-16 12:38  

    00:00