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| Israel-Palestine-Jordan |
| Newt's Palestinian comment was more than about history |
| 2011-12-12 |
| h/t Instapundit Palestinian national identity as it currently is recognized was a reaction to the creation of Israel and most prominently the 1967 war when Israel captured territory controlled by Egypt and Jordan. Newt Gingrich is under fire for stating this truth. It doesn't really change the equation on the ground, and there is an inexorable march towards Palestinians having a state in some portion of that former Egyptian and Jordanian territory, the questions being boundaries and militarization. Don't be so sure. Right now, we are having one of these periodic visits from the Gods of the Copybook Headings---I wouldn't bet on any, currently existing Arab country, surviving it. The importance of Gingrich's comment was that it skewered a false historical narrative which dominates the international debate and is used for the demonization of Israel and its chief supporter, the United States. Regardless of how the 'Palestinian' came to be, he's there now and you have to deal with him. JDAM the ones with rockets and guns -- what do you do with the rest? |
| Posted by:g(r)omgoru |
| #22 What say we put some punji sticks in the path of that "inexorable march"? |
| Posted by: mojo 2011-12-12 15:19 |
| #21 Jordan is Palestine. |
| Posted by: newc 2011-12-12 14:48 |
| #20 nix offering East Jerusalem. Nonstarter |
| Posted by: Frank G 2011-12-12 14:33 |
| #19 My end game w Paleos works like this: - they get offered part of E Jerusalem in deal - deal begins to look like it might go through - many E. Jerusamlite Paleos try to buy their way in to Israel to avoid being in Paleostan - deal begins to change - while this is going on, the Islamists in egypt become unpopular because the economy has become even worse than it is now and the Iran govt falls, egypt tries to pump up tourism but tourism industry on red sea gets attacked by Gazans - Israel develops method to extract oil from their shale kerogen, various efficiencies (to cars, lighting, etc.) reduce consumption of oil slightly in the developed world, one of the nuclear or thermonuclear reactor designs passes key technical barrier - Saudis reduce subsidies of various terror support groups - meanwhile in Bangladesh, hundreds of thousands of Ahmadis are murdered by Sunnis and in Iraq the Shiite start killing Sunnis big time and Hamas and the Islamic Jihad start killing each other - a group of high ranking imans abandons Islam in a world publicized event - paleos on the west bank, decides to take a deal similar to the ones offered them since 1999 while Egpyt takes control of Gaza to avoid Gazans doing more damage to their Red Sea tourism Its not much more difficult than hitting a 7-10 split 5 frames in a row and then making 4 double reverse bank shots |
| Posted by: Lord Garth 2011-12-12 14:08 |
#18 We've got some big brains on Rantburg. Does anybody have a serious idea of an end game with the Palestinian Arabs? One that doesn't depend on displacing entire populations or genocide? Egypt and Jordan take their own citizens back and deal with them. |
| Posted by: Laurence of the Rats 2011-12-12 13:44 |
| #17 We've got some big brains on Rantburg. Does anybody have a serious idea of an end game with the Palestinian Arabs? One that doesn't depend on displacing entire populations or genocide? This may seem bird-brained but convert them! Billy Graham's org was one of the very few allowed into closed NK and even aid workers in Afghanistan, etc. are generally respected. Old Testament prophecy indicates about 1/3 of the Egyptians and Assyrians convert to the Judeo-Christian world view in the Last Days and the rest are smitten by God or at least have no rain or food unless they worship the God of Israel....evangelical Chinese Christians have decided to target the Muslim world as they can go where others cannot. They are pouring into Africa, Afghanistan & the ME, and Latin America, while the Chinese people seem to love Americans, eager to learn English and adopt western ideas. Cross-cultural immigration can be one of America's beggest exports! See Isaiah 41, Zephaniah 2-3, Joel 3, and Zechariah 14 for a few of these as yet unfulfilled prophecies. The sword of Islam gets smitten but they put up a bloody battle first--but the forces of good wins out in the end;) |
| Posted by: Lumpy Elmoluck5091 2011-12-12 12:26 |
| #16 Anonymoose, sometimes you have to listen to what is left unsaid. Anyways, 90% of "Israeli Lobby" in USA are not Jewish. |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2011-12-12 11:56 |
| #15 Garth, to a lot of American Jews, R is the party of Grover Norquist. |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2011-12-12 11:47 |
| #14 Does anybody have a serious idea of an end game with the Palestinian Arabs? One that doesn't depend on displacing entire populations or genocide? Seems there was an old song we used to sing in Sunday school, of all places, about how "Joshua fit the battle of Jericho". Go back and read your Old Testament for clues about what may be in store for the Philistines, er, I mean the Palestinians. They could get smote, especially if they try to make trouble for the Juice while the Juice are trying to deal with Iran and/or the Hezbullies. Look for the IDF to do what is most expedient in a case like that. It is indeed amazing how few people in this country have even the foggiest notion of history. Then some guy like Newt comes along and confuses them with facts. |
| Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 2011-12-12 11:44 |
| #13 An interesting article on the 1948 war from the Arab point of view, showing the dirty deeds, back stabbing, treachery and civil war on the Arab side while they were trying to fight Israel. |
| Posted by: tipper 2011-12-12 11:37 |
| #12 In 1948, the Jews decided to head home and take their land back. While this was happening, many of the land owners in Israel fled. Many were paid for their land and others were allowed to stay. The Arabs in turn open the prisons and sent those guys to fight Israel. Eventually, these thugs were offered their own homeland. Jordan IS the Palestinian state. Though some thugs were not allowed to even settle there as they were nasty. The Arabs would not take those nasty thugs back so they were put in a concentration camp which was deftly named "Palestine". The true meaning of Palestine was a cuss word coined by the Romans meaning ones who lost their homeland. It truly is a made up thing. |
| Posted by: newc 2011-12-12 10:32 |
| #11 Xenu comes to earth and takes them and Tom Cruise away? |
| Posted by: Slatle Bumble5851 2011-12-12 10:25 |
| #10 We've got some big brains on Rantburg. Does anybody have a serious idea of an end game with the Palestinian Arabs? One that doesn't depend on displacing entire populations or genocide? |
| Posted by: rjschwarz 2011-12-12 10:19 |
| #9 grom, You are vastly underestimating the staying power of the Roosevelt/left economic myth. Many Jews believe in it. Many find this myth their 'comfort zone'. These people were fed the leftist economic history for decades and its not easy for them to recover from it. Besides a lot of these people get 98% of their ideas from network TV so these myths are constantly reinforced. |
| Posted by: Lord Garth 2011-12-12 10:14 |
| #8 g(r)omgoru: I would call it an open question, as I imagine if you asked about falling support of Democrats by Jews in the coffee klatch after a synagogue service, you would get one heck of an argument going. I knew a young Orthodox Jewish man who got great enjoyment dropping such questions, then quickly backed out to watch the fight. He said it was like dropping the puck at a hockey game. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2011-12-12 10:11 |
| #7 While I am against Newt's illegal immigrant stance, I like his blunt honesty and willingness to take the heat. With Palin not running and Cain out of the picture, he's starting to look like the least worst candidate: Better a man who'll tell us the truths that we don't like to hear than having a Liar in Chief. |
| Posted by: Ptah 2011-12-12 10:09 |
| #6 'moose, the vagon before the horse. O & Co open "anti-zionism" is because they know they lost the Jews. The change in American Jews affiliations is not connected to O's Middle East policies. It's his effect on economy---Jews know who'll be blamed if economy goes belly up. |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2011-12-12 09:18 |
| #5 By pointing out a glaring misconception about historical facts by the general public, Gingrich has thrown an angry bobcat into the pit bull ring. However, it must also be seen in context to American politics. The Democrat's antisemitism has overcome their political expediency so much that they have been telling the Jews what they really think of them. They could do this to black Americans, because they are foolish enough to be monolithic in their vote, no matter what. But Jews are both more thoughtful, and their contribution is not just a tiny voting bloc (5.2m), but monetary. By Newt so lovingly embracing Israel, it may not persuade Jews to vote for him, but it might persuade them to not open their checkbook to the Democrats, either, which is worth far more votes in the long run. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2011-12-12 09:08 |
| #4 p.s. Actually we (Israel) are not going to do anything to them you ("Da West") are going to starve them (and most their relatives) to death because you can no longer afford to feed them. |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2011-12-12 09:04 |
| #3 What rest? |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2011-12-12 08:49 |
| #2 Interestingly the post 'invented state' comments have been different in different parts of the left and islamic world. Much of the left is very angry that anyone would say this. They know it is true but it disrupts their talking points and forces them to backtrack. Some of the left is agast because they never knew this. Much of the Paleo leadership on the West Bank is angry for about the same reason that the left is angry. Hamas, Moslem Brotherhood and many others don't give a damn because the issue isn't Palestine, the issue is Islam. |
| Posted by: Lord Garth 2011-12-12 08:46 |
| #1 Ooops. I meant Iwouldn't bet on any, currently existing, Arab country surviving it. |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2011-12-12 02:42 |