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Olde Tyme Religion
Florida church to burn copies of Koran to mark 9/11
2010-07-31
A Florida church was yesterday promoting an event where it will burn copies of the Koran to mark the ninth anniversary of the September 11 attacks on the U.S.
Idiots. Book burning is the act of barbarians. Not only that, but unless the book burners have the power to impose their likes and dislikes on the target population, their little bonfire is merely a feel-good temper tantrum, just like the idiots who burn American flags. If the congregation objects to creeping Sharia, they'd be more effective lobbying for laws that assert the Constitutional separation of church and state overrides and religion's rules, including Sharia... and then keeping a vigilant eye on any legislatorial moves to weaken that position. But that would be hard work, without the immediate endorphin rush of burning paper.
Yep. This is only a step or two away from New Black Panther party behavior. In its way, it is as much of an attack on Christianity as a play portraying Jesus as a transexual S&M snuff moviemaker would be. It's the sort of thing that MoveOn or CAIR would make plenty of effort to stage successfully, if they thought they could get away with it.
In the announcement on its Facebook page, The Dove World Outreach Center of Gainesville, Florida, asked other religious groups to join in standing "against the evil of Islam. Islam is of the devil!" The Facebook event has received more than 1,500 "Like" recommendations by users, but had also been attacked with a number of threatening messages posted on the page and corresponding anti-Islam rants.

The church's pastor, Terry Jones - who has written a book titled "Islam is of The Devil" and sells T-shirts bearing the same message - defended the controversial event. "Islam and Sharia law was responsible for 9/11," Jones told Agence France-Presse.

"We will burn Korans because we think it's time for Christians, for churches, for politicians to stand up and say no; Islam and Sharia law is not welcome in the U.S. We've got many death threats from jihad groups, but we cannot react by fear and we cannot compromise our beliefs. Somebody must stand up."
If you want to stand up, why not challenge groups to debate you in an open forum on, say, the merits of Shari'a vs. the Constitution or our Judeo-Christian heritage vs. Islamic civilization? Because you're a logically challenged troublemaker, perhaps?

The National Association of Evangelicals (NAE) called for the church to cancel the event, The Christian Post reported. "It sounds like the proposed Koran burning is rooted in revenge," NAE president Leith Anderson said. "Yet the Bible says that Christians should 'make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always try to be kind to each other and to everyone else.'"

Mainstream Muslim groups also denounced the move and lamented the sentiments promoted by the Gainesville church. "Unfortunately in [Florida] and nationwide, Islamophobia are actually on the rise," Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) spokesman Ramsey Kilic told AFP. "I'm more afraid of those who have anti-Muslim sentiments and may think this is a legitimate action and may want to attack a mosque or attack a Muslim on the street," he added.

However, Kilic said, "we are not taking any action to avoid this... we don't want to give attention to this, because that's what they want."

Besides the Koran burning ceremony, the Dove World Outreach Center also plans an anti-homosexual event August 2 outside Gainesville's City Hall. The "No Homo Mayor Protest" targets the city's first openly gay mayor, Craig Lowe.
If this church were to join forces with Westboro, imagine how little power and influence they could have together.
Posted by:ryuge

#26  Agreed, lotp. Which is why the Christian challenger would have to thoroughly know and understand not only the Quran but also Muslim theological and historical development and apologetics. There aren't many equipped for that. And there probably aren't any on the Muslim side -- that's the problem with being both supercessionist and triumphalist, it leads to not bothering to learn what the other side thinks and why, since one "knows" they're wrong.

But if Muslims are to live with the rest of us, they're going to have to come to terms with hearing things they consider slander, without going jihadi. If they refuse, they simply cannot live with us.
Posted by: trailing wife   2010-07-31 22:58  

#25  There is a significant difficulty with the idea of debating Islam vs. Christianity. It has to do with what I've heard described as the Islamic doctrine of abrogation. IIUC correctly the gist of this doctrine is that

- Allah revealed his truth to the Prophet gradually. That is why some of the later verses in the Quran contradict earlier ones.

- Converts should be led through the same steps that the Prophet took. That is, the early peaceful verses of the Quran are taught first, then later the more and more confrontational ones are revealed to the new Muslim once they are drawn into Islam more and more deeply.

Add in the fact that in Islamic law 'slander' of Islam means anything that leads others to have a poor opinion about Islam.

What you would get from such a debate, therefore, are platitudes that do not represent the full Islamicist agenda. And those doing this would not believe they were lying but rather that they were obeying Allah's will for how to deal with unbelievers when when it is not yet possible to impose Shar'ia.
Posted by: lotp   2010-07-31 22:29  

#24  pig fat is a good starter
Posted by: Beavis   2010-07-31 22:07  

#23  Damn, this site is getting Politically Correct nowadays : this is no more offensive or upsetting than a synagogue burning copies of Mein Kampf. Some ideas need to have to be exposed to the sunlight, and the manual for world enslavement, aka the Koran, is one of them -- if a book-burning makes people look at the book in question, then it is a good thing.
Posted by: Shieldwolf   2010-07-31 21:39  

#22  Let them burn the Qu'ran, it will serve a useful purpose. Recon by hostile fire. Flush out the enemy so to speak.
Posted by: Secret Asian Man   2010-07-31 21:16  

#21  Martin's point is well-taken.

I think it's in the Constitution even: "The right to act like a doofus shall not be infringed."
Posted by: Gabby   2010-07-31 20:05  

#20  But I believe (and not saying that you don't believe it) that we must stand behind the right to do so.

And so we have reached agreement. :-)
Posted by: trailing wife   2010-07-31 19:54  

#19  "My point is that we must be accurate. Oh, and that burning books is dumb"

I can't disagree with that. And, as I said, I don't condone burning the Koran or Bible. Nor do I condone burning the flag. But I believe (and not saying that you don't believe it) that we must stand behind the right to do so.
Posted by: Martin    2010-07-31 19:24  

#18  Confer with Thomas Mann on subject.
Posted by: borgboy   2010-07-31 17:09  

#17  Can,t seem to in there where so called prositalizing requires a permit. Must be in the koran. Sharia trmps all after all!

I don't disagree. But it's important to be accurate, Hupoting Fillmore9546.

are you suggesting that proselytizing is now worthy of a court date in this country? I must be missing your point.

No, I'm not, Martin. And yes, you are. My point is that we must be accurate. Oh, and that burning books is dumb. There are plenty of other ways -- more effective ways -- to get across the point that we will surrender to neither the hard jihad of the sword and commercial jet nor the soft jihad of the law. This Florida congregation is choosing to do something that feels good but harms their very important cause instead of something that actually helps their cause.
Posted by: trailing wife   2010-07-31 17:05  

#16  We infidels just better hush up about and get ready to pay all that jizya tax to Hussien January 1.
Posted by: Hupoting Fillmore9546   2010-07-31 16:46  

#15  are you suggesting that proselytizing is now worthy of a court date in this country? I must be missing your point.
Posted by: Martin    2010-07-31 16:39  

#14  You would think that two or three Judeo-Christians discussing islam vs Christianity would fall well within Constitutional Freedom of speech. Can,t seem to in there where so called prositalizing requires a permit. Must be in the koran. Sharia trmps all after all!
Posted by: Hupoting Fillmore9546   2010-07-31 16:39  

#13  That little edfitorial note up there in the article about standing up and debating Judeo-Christian vs Islam got some Christians thrown in jail up there in Dearborn, Michigan very recently now didn't it?

Up in Dearborn they weren't debating, they were proselytizing. And as I recall, while they were arrested, they were given a court date rather than thrown in jail, although I could be wrong about that.

Formal religious debates have a long (we're talking about a thousand years) tradition, both in Christendom and Dar al Islam. In most cases they were organized by the majority religion so that it's wise men had a forum to prove that the minority religion was false. In a very few cases they were organized by a political leader so that by demonstration he could decide which of the various monotheistic religions to convert to. I strongly suspect very few in this country have the depth of knowledge of both their own and of the competing religions to do a formal debate justice -- including the pastor of the Florida church under discussion.
Posted by: trailing wife   2010-07-31 15:56  

#12  Just to be clear, I'm not condoning burning the Koran, Bibles, American flags or bras. But, as an American, I am willing to stand up for the right for others to do so without gleefully wishing that very real people be made into martyrs for the cause in order to expose mentally ill people of any sex, race, creed or religion.
Posted by: Martin    2010-07-31 15:36  

#11  debating Judeo-Christian vs Islam got some Christians thrown in jail up there in Dearborn

That may be true, HF, but being involved in the tea party movement got many people publicly branded as racists, got a couple beat up and one had his finger bitten off. That doesn't mean that we should stop behaving reasonably and start burning Obama in effigy.

The fact that people got arrested in Dearborn has, at the very least, alerted many around the country to be on the lookout for such infringements of our rights and to be ready with legal challenges. And, if a civilized debate were arranged ahead of time, it's doubtful that even the Dearborn police would try to stop it.
Posted by: ryuge   2010-07-31 15:29  

#10  I wonder how many of you would have shown the same outrage and poorly suppressed Darwinian glee over the possible murder of a group of atheists burning bibles. Oh...that's right, Christians won't kill you for the act of expressing free speech.

Cowards.
Posted by: Martin    2010-07-31 15:28  

#9  it makes them willing targets for Islamic retribution. If they want to become martyrs, perhaps they will unmask some truly dangerous individuals

that comment says something about you, and none of it good. Here are people willing to stand up for freedom of speech and you cheeringly mock them as Darwin candidates?

How far we have fallen.
Posted by: Martin    2010-07-31 15:24  

#8  Oh Lordy. That little edfitorial note up there in the article about standing up and debating Judeo-Christian vs Islam got some Christians thrown in jail up there in Dearborn, Michigan very recently now didn't it?
Posted by: Hupoting Fillmore9546   2010-07-31 13:43  

#7  Never could understand why anyone would stand up to PC or Islam. However wacky, cause for sure that will end up becoming a lightning rod. And most state side has the grit to be a lightning rod, or the strength to stand up in a Mohammedan's face.

NYC schools are now starting to recognize Islamic holidays and the NYC Mayor is all for a Mosque on the Mohammedan's conguered soil, Ground Zero, so having a koran burning at some Florida Church on 911 is a little crazy.

Especially when the proper place for the koran burning on 9/11 would be at Ground Zero where the Mohammedans slammed fully loaded airliners into the towers full of thousands of innocents, don't you think?

Or is the right even to d@mn PC to stand up anymore?

Oh, by the way, the US Constitution should be amended. Freedom of Religion, except for any Theocratic Intolerant of other Religions, that being Islam.
Posted by: One Eyed Hupomoter2630   2010-07-31 11:18  

#6  Well, if nothing else, it makes them willing targets for Islamic retribution. If they want to become martyrs, perhaps they will unmask some truly dangerous individuals who might have eventually butchered many innocent people.

Saint Darwin works in mysterious, and often hilarious, ways.
Posted by: Anonymoose   2010-07-31 11:07  

#5  Mainstream Muslim groups also denounced the move and lamented the sentiments promoted by the Gainesville church.

But of course! Everyone knows the Bible, Torah, and homosexuality are all widely accepted in the Muslim world.
Posted by: Besoeker   2010-07-31 10:39  

#4  Trailing Wife...you are correct, anyone who throws down Sara Palin's name in an irrelevant context isn't playing with a full deck.
Posted by: HammerHead   2010-07-31 10:31  

#3   Im sure Sarah Louise Palin will light the match.

Are you sure Trig is really her secret grandson as well, Play4Keeps? Really, you are roaming the outer reaches with this kind of thinking.
Posted by: trailing wife   2010-07-31 07:10  

#2  I've encountered some whacky churches like this in Indiana too.
Posted by: bigjim-CA   2010-07-31 06:52  

#1  Im sure Sarah Louise Palin will light the match.
Posted by: Play4Keeps   2010-07-31 06:20  

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