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Home Front: WoT
Boeing could face a foreign invasion in tanker bidding
2010-03-20
Boeing Co. may face new Western European and Russian competition for a $35 billion contract to provide the U.S. Air Force with refueling tankers.

It had appeared that Chicago-based Boeing would have the race to itself when California-based Northrop Grumman Corp. withdrew March 8, concluding it stood little chance of winning with a tanker based on the Airbus A330 jetliner. But the parent of France-based Airbus SAS, European Aeronautic Defense and Space Co., said Friday that it was considering bidding on its own after receiving assurances the Defense Department "would welcome" a tanker bid from the company's North American subsidiary.

The Pentagon indicated it was willing to extend the May deadline for proposals in order to attract other bids, EADS said. That may allow a third party to enter the fray, a plane-maker owned by the Russian government that is poised to bid, the Wall Street Journal reported Friday.
That report is behind a subscription wall but suggests the Russians would put forward a modified version of the Ilyushin-96. I don't see the USAF buying a Russian tanker.
Defense officials prefer to competitively bid large, high-profile contracts to drive prices lower and reduce the likelihood of improprieties. Both are concerns with the deal to replace the Air Force's fleet of aerial gas stations, which has dragged on for nearly a decade.

Adding overseas entries to the contest may ease strained trade relations with the European Union, whose officials accused the Pentagon of protectionism. They claim the latest round of the contest was rigged to favor Boeing's smaller, American-made 767 aircraft over the Airbus A330.

While EADS hasn't decided to bid, it may be willing to pursue the deal despite the odds of success that Northrop CEO Wes Bush considered unacceptably low.

"Northrop has a different yardstick to measure this program than EADS," Allan McArtor, chairman of Airbus Americas, told the Tribune. "Their strategic interests are different."

Highly charged politics surrounding the bids have made it impossible for the government to select a plane without creating a furor. Military planners likely concluded in devising rules for the current contest that a Boeing tanker, made in Seattle and supported by Democrats, stood a greater chance of quickly gaining funding from a Democrat-controlled Congress than EADS' Republican-backed tanker, said aerospace analyst Richard Aboulafia.

There are two ways that EADS or another overseas player still could succeed, Aboulafia added: "One is to use all the political leverage possible and try to change the [request for proposal]. The other is to discount your way into the market."
Posted by:Steve White

#12  Re: the tanker and everything else.....

What happened to the grown ups? The children are not doing so well.
Posted by: Kelly   2010-03-20 16:07  

#11  Never happen. The Chinese will copy the design and underbid the Russians.

But it would rule out any protracted ops against any interest Putin and his successors deem not in their interest. No flying tankers, no extended air ops.

And America could have saved a fortune by buying MiG-23s instead of F-15s, T-72s, K-whatever subs, and those plutonium thingies that make earth shattering kabooms.

Or we could have gone home in 1945.
Posted by: ed   2010-03-20 15:32  

#10  I think #8 hits the nail on the head.
Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain   2010-03-20 13:54  

#9  "the process" duh
Posted by: rammer   2010-03-20 13:08  

#8  Just bidding is a cheap way for the Russians to delay delivery of planes that extend US reach into their near-abroad. They never need to deliver anything. Just delay, obstruct and confuse to process.

From their perspective, there is no need to defeat what doesn't arrive.

Procuring new tankers is a real need that should be addressed immediately with a directed procurement if necessary. Then we can follow-up with a competitive bid for the future tanker at leisure.
Posted by: rammer   2010-03-20 13:04  

#7  OpenSourceIntel's report on the Russian potential bid
Posted by: 3dc   2010-03-20 11:16  

#6  I suppose I shall be heretical for a moment.

I like the idea of buying both the KC767 and the KC45 (A330).

Now I understand the argument against doing that; we'd have to train pilots and ground crews to service two planes, not one, keep spares for two, not one, etc.

Nonsense. The Air Force does that all the time anyway. We have multiple types of C, F and A types of aircraft, and the Air Force somehow manages to keep it all straight. We even have two types of K aircraft today (KC-135 and KC-10).

The reason for multiple types: each allows us to meet a need.

The KC767 is smaller, uses existing runways and ground equipment, and can be based closer to wherever the problem is. But it's smaller so it carries less fuel / cargo.

The KC45 is larger and so hauls more, but yes it requires longer runways, larger hangers and so on, so it won't ordinarily be brought close to the front.

We can use both. The Air Force needs to be close to the action and it needs to haul lots of stuff.

I'd buy both in a 2:1 split to the winner. Since this is the first of a planned three rounds of contract tenders, the loser of the current round has plenty of incentive to stick around for the next tender. That helps with costs, and if the Air Force decides in a subsequent tender that they need more of one type or the other they can adjust accordingly.

Politics is the art of the possible. It's possible to leave both sides happy enough (or at least minimally unhappy) by splitting the contract. That's what I would do.
Posted by: Steve White   2010-03-20 10:39  

#5  Aviation GSE = ground support equipment, ie, K-loaders, forktrucks, nose jacks, etc.
Posted by: Besoeker   2010-03-20 09:55  

#4  The A330 has a nose down pitch while parked making it a total (*$!&%) to load pallets without special jacking equipment. Tell me how this makes sense in an operating environment with limited GSE.
Posted by: tzsenator   2010-03-20 09:48  

#3  It may indeed be the case the Boeing is what you've said.

However, there's a legitimate debate going on inside USAF on the requirements for this tanker. The Airbus 330 simply does NOT fit onto the sort of runways we anticipate needing to use for many conflicts over the next decade+. The Boeing plane does but is older.

Neither plane offered in the last round met the specs as written. The specs were revised a bit and the solicitation re-opened.

Is there politics involved? Is the Pope Catholic?

Yes - BOTH bidders brought political pressure to bear on the source selection. Northrup/EADS aren't exactly victims here.
Posted by: lotp   2010-03-20 06:45  

#2  The only reason it's like this is because BOEING are a bunch of corrupt assholes who belong in prison. The last tanker deal didn't end 'correctly' so they're trying again.
Posted by: gromky   2010-03-20 05:33  

#1  A Russian tanker for DoD?

Is it really April 1st today?
Posted by: lex   2010-03-20 00:22  

00:00