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| Arizona officers fight unlicensed CC gun proposal |
| 2009-06-19 |
| Law-enforcement officials are working to quash a proposal that would allow gun owners in Arizona to carry concealed weapons without a permit. The proposal, which is scheduled to be heard today in the Senate Judiciary Committee, has sparked a debate over what restrictions should be placed on gun owners who wish to carry weapons in public buildings, schools and other places. Opponents said the bill would endanger law-enforcement officers and the public by eliminating permits and the training courses now required to obtain them. "This bill would make a radical and very dangerous change to state law," Attorney General Terry Goddard said at a Thursday news conference. "The current law in Arizona is not broken. It has worked exceptionally well." To receive a concealed-carry permit today, gun owners have to take an eight-hour course on gun laws and safety and pass a shooting test. The course costs about $100. About 125,000 Arizonans have obtained the $60 permit since the concealed-carry law was established in 1994. Senate Bill 1270, sponsored by Sen. Sylvia Allen, would make the safety course optional. It also would allow people to carry guns into public buildings and onto school campuses if they were picking up their children or responding to an emergency. Supporters of the bill say existing concealed-carry laws are confusing and can lead to unfair prosecution. A woman could be arrested for a concealed-carry violation if she was driving in her car and inadvertently placed a newspaper on top of a gun in the passenger's seat, they say. Gun owners who want to untuck their shirts to conceal a weapon when they walk into a store shouldn't have to take a training course, said John Wentling, vice president of the Arizona Citizens Defense League. "Do you need a permit to untuck your shirt? Do you need training to untuck your shirt?" Wentling said. "It's just too subjective." Police chiefs around the state have objected to the proposal, saying it would heighten tensions between officers and the community. By increasing the number of gun owners who have not received safety training, it could increase the potential for tragic accidents, they said. "It's going to put officers on edge," said Mike Frazier, police chief of El Mirage. "Who's armed? Who's not? Who's the victim? Who's the subject? There are a lot of issues involved there." But Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio said he would support the bill, saying carriers of concealed weapons should not face permit requirements when people who carry their weapons openly do not. "A gun is a gun, whether it's concealed or not," Arpaio said. If passed, Arizona would become the third state to allow gun owners to carry concealed weapons without a permit, after Alaska and Vermont. Of states that allow concealed weapons, 39 require a permit or training, according to the Attorney General's Office. Allen, the bill's sponsor, said critics of the bill have overreacted. Violent crime will decrease if the bill passes, she said. "Law enforcement is never in support of citizens protecting themselves," said Allen, R-Snowflake. "Why do we have to pass a law that says, 'This is the only way you're going to protect yourself'? . . . It's a God-given, constitutional right that you have." |
| Posted by:Anonymoose |
| #8 49 Pan: I would describe what is needed as voluntary "gun culture" classes for the public. While such classes already exist, often they are prohibitively expensive. Starting after WWII, there were a number of efforts to educate the public about things like hygiene and sanitation, with the idea of creating a "disease prevention culture", that today is common knowledge. Self-sustaining knowledge that people teach each other. However, just the opposite has happened with guns, for a multitude of reasons. That is, much of our gun culture has faded away, leaving the majority of people ignorant of an equally complex subject. Classes in gun culture can go far afield into gun etiquette and courtesy, laws, psychology, maintenance, practice, first aid, finding the gun that is just right for an individual, accessories, gun use in different situations, etc. The idea is that this would become family knowledge, and be passed around by people as common sense. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2009-06-19 20:37 |
| #7 Seems pretty obvious Cops are afraid of armed citizens, WHY. Unless the cops are thugs, why worry? |
| Posted by: Redneck Jim 2009-06-19 19:24 |
| #6 I love Arizona! Sheriff Joe supports the bill! The issue is really that open carry does not require a permit and concealed does. The laws are confusing as to where you can carry open and when you have to conceal it. This is a great debate on too many rules. Hope they clean it up soon. I would not be against having everyone take the course to carry at all. The course is a good one and deals with the legal end of using a weapon in America. Worth going to. |
| Posted by: 49 Pan 2009-06-19 15:43 |
| #5 So, how's this working out in Alaska and Vermont? Probably about the same as before the law change. People make guns dangerous not the other way around. |
| Posted by: Richard of Oregon 2009-06-19 15:00 |
| #4 From reading the above the only cops that need to worry, are the assho;es hiding behind a badge. (And yes, they're out there, such as constables, and other cop wannabes we had a constable so bad they abolished the position to get rid of him.) |
| Posted by: Redneck Jim 2009-06-19 14:01 |
| #3 seems to me the only difference in concealed vs open carry is that you're much less likely to be impolite to someone if you knoew he's carrying. I can see why some cops would be worried. "An armed society is a polite society." ___R.A. Heinlein |
| Posted by: Gleamp Protector of the Faith5580 2009-06-19 12:27 |
| #2 ...even bother... |
| Posted by: Procopius2k 2009-06-19 11:38 |
| #1 You know that if the chiefs, judges, and lawyers got their act together and delivered real justice, most citizens wouldn't even both about carrying any means of self defense. Consider it a reflection on the quality of your performance dudes. |
| Posted by: Procopius2k 2009-06-19 11:38 |