| Submit your comments on this article |
| -Lurid Crime Tales- |
| 'Say please' at U. S. border nets pepper spray |
| 2009-03-05 |
A Canadian who demanded courtesy from a U.S. border security guard says he was pepper sprayed and held in custody for three hours for asking the disrespectful officer to "say please" when ordering him to turn his car off during a search. "I refused to turn off the car until he said please. He didn't. And he has the gun, I guess, so he sprayed me," said Desiderio Fortunato, a Coquitlam, B.C., resident who frequently crosses the border to visit his second home in the state of Washington. "Is that illegal in the United States, asking an officer to be polite?" The incident occurred on Monday at the Aldergrove border crossing, east of Vancouver, shortly after 12 p.m. Mr. Fortunato, a dance studio director, was travelling to his home in Blaine, Wash., to retrieve a wallet his wife had left during their most recent visit. He said he was questioned by a border officer who demanded he turn off his car and, when asked to make the request more politely, threatened to spray him with his pepper gun if he did not comply. "I just felt I should stand my ground about it. I should not be treated like that. No matter what kind of position you are in, if you want respect you have to show respect," he said yesterday. "I asked him three times and when I didn't turn the car off, because he didn't say please, he pepper sprayed me.... It was terrible. For half an hour or so I couldn't see anything." Mr. Fortunato said after he was sprayed he was forcefully taken into custody by several officers. He was held for three hours before he was released without being allowed entry into the United States. Mr. Fortunato says he was dismissed with a warning to be more cooperative in the future. A spokesperson for U.S. Customs and Border Protection said officers are trained on how to handle confrontation, and refusal to comply with a direct order is justification to use capsicum spray, also known as pepper spray, or other "soft techniques" such as physical holds. "The combination of training and experience is what our officers use to communicate with passenger on a day-today basis. Our officers will give direct orders or commands to passengers, especially in situations where there may be a safety concern. It is the obligation of the passenger to be compliant with those," said spokesperson Mike Milne. He added that officers order border passengers to turn of their vehicles when they want to take somebody from a car and, in such cases, further questioning would be conducted inside the building. While he could not comment on the specific case, Mr. Milne said the use of force at a border crossing is very rare, very serious and subject to immediate review. By his own admission, Mr. Fortunato is a stickler for courtesy and respect. The Portuguese native, who has lived in B.C. for 25 years and has owned his second home in Washington for three, pulled a similar stunt at the same border crossing about one year ago. In that case, he was ordered to wait hours to be questioned before being allowed to cross. Once, he said, he asked a Canadian border agent to be more polite when requesting documents, to which the agent responded with a sheepish "please." I for one am happy that they maced this guy... |
| Posted by:bgrebel |
| #20 "#12 g(r)omgoru , Are you making a funny remark ? I Don't know who you are. Please add an explanation of your statement." I don't know who you are, either, Crusing the Kid5442, but grom's statement seemed pretty straightforward to me. Sure you're not Cru |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2009-03-05 20:03 |
| #19 RJ - that's just f*cking ignorant. Borders aren't traffic stops, and if a cop stops you in traffic? Do what he says. Period. Write em up later. This poodle has an attitude that would get him beaten elsewhere in the world, and I'd pay to watch it |
| Posted by: Frank G 2009-03-05 18:55 |
| #18 I wonder how the cop would like to have been pepper sprayed himself Like C.B. sed, as part of the training necessary to carry pepper spray, you do get a face-full of it. I think the guy was entirely correct to ask the cop to be polite, he wasn't being arrested. Customs and Border Protection, not just a "cop". |
| Posted by: Pappy 2009-03-05 18:41 |
| #17 "He said he was questioned by a border officer who demanded he turn off his car and, when asked to make the request more politely, threatened to spray him with his pepper gun if he did not comply." Yeah, no attitude there. He disobeyed the order, at least twice, despite being warned of the consequences and kept his potentially dangerous vehicle idling. That's like saying I won't put the gun down until you ask politely. This was not the time or place to make demands. I"m sure the cop will be repremanded because this made national news and became embarrassing but the guy should have shut off the engine and then made his comments about politeness. Oh, and I believe Cops are all maced as part of their training. Maced and zapped with a stun gun. |
| Posted by: rjschwarz 2009-03-05 17:11 |
| #16 Didja ever here the one about the Portuguese dance studio director that demanded courtesy from the security guard while trying to cross the U.S. border? The guard politely taught him the Salsa Spray. |
| Posted by: DepotGuy 2009-03-05 14:55 |
| #15 Was the cop wrong? Maybe. Is our Canadian dance instuctor an asshole? Oh, definitely. I'll lose no sleep over this one... |
| Posted by: tu3031 2009-03-05 14:41 |
| #14 Redneck Jim, I am pretty sure that the official got pepper sprayed as part of his training. I got a faceful of that crap before I was allowed to carry it, and the feds, as far as I know, have the same policy. |
| Posted by: Cornsilk Blondie 2009-03-05 14:37 |
| #13 I wonder how the cop would like to have been pepper sprayed himself. I think the guy was entirely correct to ask the cop to be polite, he wasn't being arrested. I had a somewhat similar thing happen, I was eating at a burger joint, it was good weather so I sat in one o their outdoor deck chairs to eat, I noticed two cops go up to the take out window, then walk toward me, when they got there the younger cop said "What are you doing"? with my mouth bull of burger I replied "Eating lunch", he started to get an attitude and the older cop stopped him, and said "You're wearing a gun", I said "So", and he said "The employees were afraid of you", I couldn't help it, I started laughing, and he Grinned, apologized and they left, muttering something about the wacky employees. |
| Posted by: Redneck Jim 2009-03-05 13:26 |
| #12 g(r)omgoru , Are you making a funny remark ? I Don't know who you are. Please add an explanation of your statement. |
| Posted by: Crusing the Kid5442 2009-03-05 12:34 |
| #11 Something tells me there's a little more to the story. Border officers don't whip out the pepper spray at a little (rather stupid) joke. I suspect that there was a lot more to his attitude. |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2009-03-05 08:59 |
| #10 Don't mace me bro! |
| Posted by: ed 2009-03-05 08:57 |
| #9 when counter-demands are made to law enforcement, that's when things go south real fast (except in this case, he didn't so South too fast). |
| Posted by: HammerHead 2009-03-05 08:54 |
| #8 I disagree that the police need to be polite. They need to be clear and unambiguous. I agree with CSB. Very probably more to the story. This guy could easily be an agent provacateur as his history implies, trying to soften up our defences. Someone should tell him we're at war and you don't want to mess with someone in uniform carrying a gun during wartime. |
| Posted by: Nimble Spemble 2009-03-05 08:53 |
| #7 The police SHOULD have been polite, but they do not have to be, and way too many are petty people on power trips. Agreed. However, this caught my eye: officers order border passengers to turn off their vehicles when they want to take somebody from a car and, in such cases, further questioning would be conducted inside the building So let's see. This guy is a non-US and non-Canadian citizen who goes back and forth over the border regularly. Post 9/11 that warrants a touch of scrutiny. Security wishes to ask him some questions and he refuses to turn off his car and accompany them. Add in the fact that he's confronted and tried to intimidate border security guards in the past. Yup, I don't use profanity often but he does indeed fit the profile of pr**k. |
| Posted by: lotp 2009-03-05 08:41 |
| #6 Welcome to the "No entry" list Mr. Fortunato. |
| Posted by: ed 2009-03-05 08:25 |
| #5 Mr. Fortunato sounds like a pretentious little prick. When I enter a foreign country, I do not demand that the local constabulariess do as I say. I only hope he has a chance to visit other lands and play his little game there. He might look back on pepper spray more fondly |
| Posted by: Frank G 2009-03-05 08:12 |
| #4 Never go to a pepper spray fight armed only with a bad attitude. Hat tip to the U.S. border guard. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2009-03-05 07:45 |
| #3 When police order you to do something, you had better do it, unless you are willing to pay the price, which can be a lot more severe than Fortunato paid. The police SHOULD have been polite, but they do not have to be, and way too many are petty people on power trips. |
| Posted by: Glenmore 2009-03-05 07:40 |
| #2 I'm sure he made his "request" to the border guard politely, too. NOT! (I hope that the guard has this on tape. I'll bet you there is far more to Mr Fortunato's story than what is reported here.) |
| Posted by: Cornsilk Blondie 2009-03-05 06:46 |
| #1 Well, I've got to say that I admire the guy---many a time I wanted to knock down and stomp some petty official dictator. |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2009-03-05 01:55 |