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| Microsoft, Intel Firings Stir Resentment Over Visas |
| 2009-02-21 |
| Microsoft Corp.'s plan to eliminate U.S. workers after lobbying for more foreigner visas is stirring resentment among lawmakers and employees. As many as 5,000 employees are being shown the door at Microsoft, which uses more H1-B guest-worker visas than any other U.S. company. Some employees and politicians say Microsoft should get rid of foreigners first. "If they lay people off, are they going to think of America first or are they going to think of the world first?" Chuck Grassley, a Republican Senator from Iowa, said in an interview. He sent a letter to Microsoft Chief Executive Officer Steve Ballmer the day after Microsoft announced the job cuts last month, demanding Ballmer fire visa holders first. Across the technology industry, some of the biggest users of H1-B visas are cutting jobs, including Intel Corp., International Business Machines Corp. and Hewlett-Packard Co. The firings at Microsoft, the world's largest software maker, came less than a year after Chairman Bill Gates lobbied Congress for an expansion of the visa program. Even before Microsoft announced the cuts, its first-ever companywide layoffs, comments on a blog run by an anonymous Microsoft worker angrily debated getting rid of guest workers first. The author of the Mini-Microsoft blog eventually had to censor and then completely block all arguments about visas, after the conversation "got downright nasty." New Hires Microsoft is hiring 2,000 to 3,000 workers over the next 18 months, offsetting the job cuts. Some of those will certainly be on H1-B visas, said Ginny Terzano, a spokeswoman for the Redmond, Washington-based company. She declined to comment on how many workers laid off are on visas. Laid-off Microsoft employees aren't always a good fit for new positions, she said. "If you have a laid off General Motors engineer, that doesn't qualify them for a job as a software engineer," Terzano said. "It's the same with some of the people laid off at our company." Microsoft rose 9 cents to $18 at 4 p.m. New York time in Nasdaq Stock Market trading. The shares tumbled 45 percent last year. The slumping economy and rising unemployment may make it harder for technology companies to persuade the government to expand the H1-B program, designed to attract workers in areas such as science and technology. Since the annual number of H1-B visas issued dropped to 65,000 in 2004 from 195,000 in previous years, the program has been oversubscribed before each year even began. In 2008, the government reached the maximum number of applications just one week after it began accepting them. 'Best Talent' Asked about whether some companies may back off from lobbying for more H1-B visas, Intel Chief Financial Officer Stacy Smith said that could happen as hiring drops. Intel, the world's largest chipmaker, is closing five older plants by year-end, affecting as many as 6,000 jobs. "Our strategy has always been to hire the best talent we can hire anywhere in the world," Smith said in an interview this month. "It's the fuel that moves our industry forward." Companies like Microsoft, which sent Gates to persuade Congress to ease visa restrictions in March, could be forced to curb those efforts, said Microsoft Vice President Dan'l Lewin. "People probably will be a lot more cautious about how public they are, but it's not going to go away as an issue," he said. "You need the people." |
| Posted by:Fred |
| #15 Screw Gates. |
| Posted by: Icerigger 2009-02-21 19:19 |
| #14 Gates is a hateful little TURD, he'd stick a knife in your back while pretending to hold your coat. |
| Posted by: Red Dawg 2009-02-21 18:39 |
| #13 From what I've heard there are some very exciting things going on it Bangalore, almost to the point where I'd like to go see it for myself. I wish those Indian programmers luck. I really do. They're smart, they work hard and they deserve it. I'd also like to see a free, democratic and prosperous India. But I'd be a little disappointed if Windows is the best they can do. |
| Posted by: Abu Uluque 2009-02-21 15:43 |
| #12 Abu, I believe that Microsoft already has a development center in Bangalore. And they pay top rupee there. Almost Rs 100,000 per month. Of course, that translates to $2500/month, or $30,000/year. That is for the top graduates of the top schools in India. |
| Posted by: Rambler in Virginia 2009-02-21 14:54 |
| #11 Back in 1978 I got an education that made me productive as a programmer in 6 months from an outfit called Control Data Institute. Got my degree at Coleman College in San Diego. It took eight months compared to four and a half years at state college pursuing a worthless liberal arts degree. The memory of those four and half years and all the time spent trying to earn a living afterward is humiliating and painful to me but at the time I just didn't know any better. How could I? They don't teach you. But I think P2K has the most compelling argument here. Importing tech workers and outsourcing tech projects kills domestic incentive to go into these fields. Yes, NS, we'll end up competing with these people one way or another. But my instinct is to meet them head on and compete with good, old-fashioned hard work and American ingenuity instead of cheating and cutting corners the way Microsoft does. PTUI! If Microsoft wants to be a "world" company, let them relocate to Bangalore. I, for one, wouldn't miss them a bit. They don't innovate. They copy and stifle innovation. |
| Posted by: Abu Uluque 2009-02-21 14:45 |
| #10 Proco you are, of course correct. They do it with the connivance of their pet pols. I'm sure it is cheaper for them.....BUT if the educational institutions which are controlled by the pols there'd be no need for this. Or if more people would say FU to the colleges and went and got the technical training on their own (see comment about CDI) then the businesses would hire them instead of the H1-Bs. |
| Posted by: AlanC 2009-02-21 13:17 |
| #9 Nothing stops companies et al from establishing programs with educational institutions to do just that. Again, the services have ROTC programs to generate officers. However, the corporations and business don't want to pay the price to do that if they can bribe their representatives to make it easier for them and their HR departments to import. They've been doing it for over twenty years and in doing so have undermined incentives of Americans to develop and learn the skills industry claims they need. |
| Posted by: Procopius2k 2009-02-21 12:36 |
| #8 In my role as a systems consultant I have been to many large companies with large H1-B populations. The problem here in the states has to do with the assinine educational system and the assinine hiring practices of corporations that think a BA in Sociology means something. What the US needs are more trade schools that teach in a relatively short time the technical skills needed to be productive. But no, every one gets sucked into the "Liberal Arts" monopoly trap. Higher education is going to be the next bubble to burst when more people realize that most colleges are a scam to equal Madoff. There's no need at all for everyone to have one of those worthless BAs. The companies could develop or pay others to teach the skills needed. Back in 1978 I got an education that made me productive as a programmer in 6 months from an outfit called Control Data Institute. Once you were saleable you could move up as fast as you wanted with additional courses supported by your employer. The current system sucks. |
| Posted by: AlanC 2009-02-21 11:45 |
| #7 I've worked for companies that have hired H1-B's. All postiions could have been sourced in the U.S., but the H-1B's were cheaper. |
| Posted by: DoDo 2009-02-21 10:32 |
| #6 hmmmm Ginny Terzano, sounds familiar. Oops - Deputy Press Secretary under |
| Posted by: Frank G 2009-02-21 09:58 |
| #5 Their numbers greatly assist diversity hiring and government mandated recruitment quotas Hammerhead. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2009-02-21 08:57 |
| #4 Gee, so the African and Woman Studies Master Decree grads aren't helping our economy? |
| Posted by: HammerHead 2009-02-21 08:24 |
| #3 NS, H1-Bs numbered about 10,000 a year back in the 80s. Today the companies and lobbyists have pushed it over 250,000. That's over twenty years of subsidizing these industries and businesses. The original claim was that there were no qualified people for the jobs. Twenty years of no work for Americans means the incentive to study and grow the skills has been killed. I witnessed the game being played in the IT industry. They'd advertise a want ad with a long list of 'requirements' that no one could fill. When they'd receive no 'qualified' responses they'd file their H1Bs. There would be no follow up to see if the foreign individual who they did recruit filled the requirement better than the local applicants. None. Period. It's a shame that businesses have used for years. Where does the military get its people, kids out of school, to man and operate their systems? They train them. Industry and business doesn't want to pay that expense. They whine that once trained, the employees will leave, ignoring that you put them under contract. However, they don't want to do that because they treat their employees as a cost, not an asset. So, some lobbying "less than a year after Chairman Bill Gates lobbied Congress for an expansion of the visa program" and some donations to reelection funds, and their personnel management issues disappear. It's over two decades to tell American business to "Grow Your Own". |
| Posted by: Procopius2k 2009-02-21 08:23 |
| #2 We've got an oversupply of houses and a crappy educational system. There is no reason not to skim the cream of the highly intelligent, hard working people of the world to come here to stimulate growth and demand for all that excess housing. The Americans who are displaced from their jobs need to recognize that inevitably they will be competing against these people. The only question is whether ti will be competing within a stronger America against other Americans or via oursourcing or the growth of foreign competitors against stronger foreign entities. We need to help displaced Americans get back on their feet and gain employment, but we also have to recognize that these folks are going to be on the field also and it's only a question of which team they're on. The strength of America has always been its ability to attract the best and brightest. They are part of the solution, not the problem. Return the unneeded drywallers to Mexico, but bring on the scientists and engineers our schools are failing to produce. |
| Posted by: Nimble Spemble 2009-02-21 07:49 |
| #1 In before Walt! :) And yeah, guess it might stur up a bit of anger. |
| Posted by: .5MT 2009-02-21 07:38 |