| Submit your comments on this article |
| Home Front: Politix |
| VDH: Palin bites back |
| 2008-09-04 |
| Tonight I flipped to CNN and was struck by the talking heads flipping out about the Giuliani/Palin mocking of community organizers—as if the Obama team's dismissals of "small-town" mayors was fair play. The MSM networks are going ballistic at her speech and apparently never imagined that anyone would dare bite back—and also at them, the 'elite media' of the press, no less! Compared to what Kerry et al. said about McCain, Palin was no tougher on the other side, so it is odd to hear CNN female pundits suddenly shocked, shocked that a "woman" would dare attack a man like that, and that it may "not play" outside the hall. Like it or now we are back in a cultural and populist war, brought on by a week of liberal character assassination. The Left made a terrible mistake in the manner they have smeared Palin, and now they seem appalled at the red-state authentic populist backlash which is a different sort than studied Bidenism, where one recalls a distant childhood, not the recent past, or the living present, to prove they are one with the people. So things heat up and are getting ugly as they always seem to do by September in an election year. Today it was no accident in the wake of the attacks on Palin that suddenly Obama comes out with pro-abortion ads attacking the pro-life position of McCain. The timing is a sort of subtext about the current and recent Palin jr. and sr. pregnancies: apparently Team Obama want the viewer to see a pregnant teen-ager and a Down syndrome child and ponder something like: "under John McCain abortion in these cases would have been impossible." |
| Posted by:Mike |
| #34 "A relentless, poop-listed, self-proclaimed "basher" must get two or three readers before their post disappears. And irritates the mods, too. That can only be satisfying to someone with a warped mind." Darrell, if you're referring to Mr. "A," you don't know the half of it. He actually e-mailed me a response to my (go-to-hell) response to one of his since-disappeared posts. That's just sad, and more than a little pathetic. Of course, I checked "mark as unsafe" and "junk" and dumped it. I noticed he didn't e-mail me about the post where I said some decent things about him. How typical.... |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2008-09-04 23:32 |
| #33 "You dont have to abolish it to make it work...the fact that local business owners and farmers with NET worths of over half a million or a million pay the tax doesnt mean this is a tax that the majority of the rural working class is going to pay." -since you put it that way, that makes it perfectly okay then. (sarcasm/off) so long as it only fucks a few fellow Americans what's the big deal, right? My step-father is of self-made weath - came from the poorest of the poor in east Detroit, put himself through college and ended up owning a plethora of businesses over a 40 yr period..my family will prolly feel this one down the road. everyone (rantburger posters excluded) seems to want to be rich but at the same time they want to revile those who are rich. |
| Posted by: Broadhead6 2008-09-04 23:20 |
| #32 Well said Mike, very well said. It's also worth noting, at least according to the last financial advisor I worked with, that the average heir blows nearly all of their inheritance in under two years. He asserted that this was uniformly true whether the inheritance was tens of thousands of dollars or tens of millions. If he's right the estate tax is useless since nearly all inherited wealth is quicly redistributed throughout the economy via teh private sector. There's little need for government intervention. |
| Posted by: AzCat 2008-09-04 17:20 |
| #31 'Hawk, wht you don't appreciate is that the estate tax is a tax on upward mobility. People who start out with nothing get to be big enough to pay the tax withiout being big enough to feel it. People with dynastic wealth write a check and still have plenty left over. The old money crowd likes the tax because it keeps the children of the petit bourgeoisie and nouveau riche riffraff out of the country club. Want to end "economic royalism?" Remove the barriers to upward mobility! |
| Posted by: Mike 2008-09-04 16:51 |
| #30 A relentless, poop-listed, self-proclaimed "basher" must get two or three readers before their post disappears. And irritates the mods, too. That can only be satisfying to someone with a warped mind. |
| Posted by: Darrell 2008-09-04 16:44 |
| #29 My mom and dad both died, and nobody payed any death tax. Cause the estates werent big enough Translated: It doesn't affect me so what's the big deal? Why should I care if someone elses family farm or business has to be liquidated. If it is not my lifestyle being affected, why should I care? |
| Posted by: Betty Grating2215 2008-09-04 16:41 |
| #28 LH - I began a more detailed response but this isn't the proper forum for an airing of that particular dirty laundry. Suffice it to say that, unlike you, I have personal experience with the death tax and its surprising ramifications. It destroys small business, enriches the legal profession (that's me BTW), tears families apart, and results in a staggering amount of unnecessary an unproductive litigation and tax planning / evasion (legal and otherwise). Even when I don't agree with you you often make solid points but you're speaking from a position of base ignorance here; you have absolutely *NO* idea the damage this tax does and there's no way you could until it touches you in a very personal way. |
| Posted by: AzCat 2008-09-04 16:26 |
| #27 Most of my clients who have to worry about the federal estate tax are business owners--counting farms as a "business" because they are, really. They're "wealthy" in the sense that their net worth goes up over the threshold where the tax applies--but that wealth is in the form of a big illiquid asset. They either have to sell the business to pay the tax on it, or go through some convoluted gyrations to be able to keep it intact and functioning for the next generation. What you call "economic royalism" should be called "preserving the family legacy." That can be addressed by raising the minimum level it applies, and making getting around the need to liquidate easier. You dont have to abolish it to make it work. And yeah, the fact that local business owners and farmers with NET worths of over half a million or a million pay the tax doesnt mean this is a tax that the majority of the rural working class is going to pay. Aside from which, if ANYONE doesnt pay it, then its not a death tax. A death tax would be a tax you paid just for dying regardless of the size of your estate. and yeah, I use the term economic royalism. If youre gonna use class war language, which Ms Palin seems quite free with, its gonna be used back at you. |
| Posted by: liberalhawk 2008-09-04 15:38 |
| #26 As for the Death Tax, the alleged reason is so that wealth does not get concentrated in a few families. Could some constitutional scholar enlighten me where in the Constitution that power is assigned to the federal government? Eminent domain does not apply (or should not apply) to everything you own just because you die. |
| Posted by: Rambler in California 2008-09-04 15:23 |
| #25 Right wing and left wing pundits and activists have said lots of vile things. True, but the "official" ones on the left that take official campaign money and do official interviews have said the most vile things. If I was running as a dhimocrat, I would punt DailyKos and the DU out of my orbit so fast they would be near Pluto. Also, with the Death tax was only repealed by Bush and Bambi wants to bring it back. Unfortunately, it was repealed too late for my Grandmother's estate. Uncle Same raped my relatives for 10% of everything. Our income is already double and triple taxed. We don't need another layer of secured assets that was set aside and already taxed like hell to be taxed again. Revolutions have been fought over this. Example: The deceased's assets can be realized and also because the tax rate is determined by the value of the deceased's assets rather than the amount each inheritor receives. Neither the number of inheritors nor the size of each inheritor's portion factors into the calculations for rate of the Estate Tax. So in my relative's case, a $250,000 dollar lump, to be broken up between her 4 children had $25,000 ripped out before anything else happened. And this is after it was taxed as income and then taxed as a capital gain. So the money the Grandmother had spent 50+ years stowing away for her children kept getting nibbled at by the feds and then when it was given away, a bite was taken again. Personally, I see this as little more than highway robbery and a complete disregard for personal wealth and free enterprise. |
| Posted by: DarthVader 2008-09-04 15:10 |
| #24 'Hawk, I make my living doing estate planning, so I know that of which I speak. Most of my clients who have to worry about the federal estate tax are business owners--counting farms as a "business" because they are, really. They're "wealthy" in the sense that their net worth goes up over the threshold where the tax applies--but that wealth is in the form of a big illiquid asset. They either have to sell the business to pay the tax on it, or go through some convoluted gyrations to be able to keep it intact and functioning for the next generation. What you call "economic royalism" should be called "preserving the family legacy." |
| Posted by: Mike 2008-09-04 14:49 |
| #23 by the way, youre "populist" attacked Obama for wanting to raise the so-called Death Tax. There is no Death tax. My mom and dad both died, and nobody payed any death tax. Cause the estates werent big enough. See its not a death tax, its actually an inheritance tax. Which most of the people she was speaking too will never pay. Similarly most of what she had to say about economics was old fashioned economic royalism. She spoke about 5 paragraphs on drilling for oil and nat gas, and about 1 for alternatives and coal altogether. And not a word on conservation of any kind. So much for taking the Russian and Middle eastern oil threat seriously. Her husband is a proud member of the Steel Workers. She didnt say what she would do to help workers who want to organize but cant because of union busting techniques. Nor did she take on the Republicans who call union leaders "labor bosses". Get away for a minute from the evilness of big cities and the Ivy League and the goodness of small towns and state schools. This woman is just another generic conservative Republican who speaks well (you guys know what i think of THAT) and is not from Washington (Jimmy Cahtuh says hi - so does the chosen one, in his own way). She aint gonna be the game changer you think. |
| Posted by: liberalhawk 2008-09-04 14:37 |
| #22 I wasn't complaining about y'all, lotp - the mods do a Herculean job as it is, without having to clean up Aris' (and others') droppings. I'm just ruminating that a knowledgeable someone in Greece or thereabouts could be a valuable contributor to our community. Too bad Aris chose not to be that someone. (I know you're out there lurking and Googling your name, Aris. Think about what I said. I'm sorry you blew it, but you're the one responsible for your banning.) |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2008-09-04 14:33 |
| #21 "Because there's credible evidence the press and the nutroots are playing a huge operational role in the Obama/Biden campaign." Some bloggers are trying to tie into the campaign, as is true on the right as well. |
| Posted by: liberalhawk 2008-09-04 14:28 |
| #20 That's been tried, Barb. More than once. We got tired of the pattern and he ceased being worth the mods' time to monitor whether he was contributing or being a PITA. He's still being a PITA by continuing to take advantage of Fred's openness, but his grafitti won't persist long before one of the mods comes by for cleanup. |
| Posted by: lotp 2008-09-04 14:13 |
| #19 "[ArisK.atsaris has been pooplisted.]" Too bad. Last night he actually had some interesting and intelligent things to say. Aris could be a useful contributor to the knowledge base of Rantburg, but it appears he just can't control himself. I don't know what he said in the above posting, but based on previous screeds, if he could just learn the difference between snarky and |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2008-09-04 13:11 |
| #18 << Why not let McCain, Obama, Biden, and Palin just be responsible for their own statements?>> Because there's credible evidence the press and the nutroots are playing a huge operational role in the Obama/Biden campaign. |
| Posted by: lotp 2008-09-04 12:17 |
| #17 [ArisK.atsaris has been pooplisted.] |
| Posted by: ArisK.atsaris 2008-09-04 12:09 |
| #16 I'll take a small town mayor who actually makes decisions over a part-time state senator who votes "present" to avoid taking stands any day. |
| Posted by: AzCat 2008-09-04 12:07 |
| #15 |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2008-09-04 12:05 |
| #14 small town mayors vs community activists. Community activist, of course, was not the chosen ones last job before becoming US Senator. State legislator was. |
| Posted by: liberalhawk 2008-09-04 11:55 |
| #13 Many left wing pundits and activists already have Right wing and left wing pundits and activists have said lots of vile things. Why not let McCain, Obama, Biden, and Palin just be responsible for their own statements? |
| Posted by: liberalhawk 2008-09-04 11:53 |
| #12 ...if Obama hints that the Down Syndrom baby should have been aborted, well he will look really cold. Many left wing pundits and activists already have. And boy do they look like the Eugenics Nazi fools they are. The Left/right of center is getting nervous by them and their constant below the belt attacks. I think the middle will warm quickly to Palin and be disgusted by the left at the same time and we will quickly see a Republican landslide in the making in October. |
| Posted by: DarthVader 2008-09-04 11:46 |
| #11 The abortion card will not work as well as usual. An old white guy telling women they can't have abortions is very different from a youngish mother telling them they shouldn't, she didn't, and things work out okay. And if Obama hints that the Down Syndrom baby should have been aborted, well he will look really cold. |
| Posted by: rjschwarz 2008-09-04 11:35 |
| #10 These CNN dumf**ks are so dumbstruck that the whole country is laughing at their ignorance that they don't know what to do. Palin gave a superb speech and delivery of it. Much better than I expected she could do. Bravo ! But I thoroughly enjoyed both Mike Steele and Rudy too. Especially Rudy. Boy, did he kick the living shit out of the Magic Man or what ? And, he thoroughly enjoyed himself doing it. What a hoot! This might get McPain revved up. Let's hope so. Attack, Johnny, attack. You've got the ammo. Use it. |
| Posted by: Woozle Elmeter 2700 2008-09-04 11:20 |
| #9 Something tasteless: When considering the bo:jb ticket the only thing missing is the media's l. Phenomenal Speech. |
| Posted by: swksvolFF 2008-09-04 11:15 |
| #8 "I suspect that the abortion card is problematic" ESPECIALLY this year. They get to try to argue "pro-choice" with a formidable woman who HAS made a choice, 5 times. They just don't like that choice. "Pro-choice as long as you chose the way we would choose" just doesn't have the same cache. |
| Posted by: Minister of funny walks 2008-09-04 10:51 |
| #7 I suspect that the abortion card is problematic with the dems because I remember reading somewhere (sorry, can't cite a source for this) that many democrats are anti-abortion, just like many republians are pro-abortion. I don't remember the percentage that cuts across party lines but it was bigger than I expected. So playing the pro-abortion card against a woman who gave birth to a special needs baby (and celebrates her baby) and whose beautiful 17 year old daughter is going to give birth, is going to be a dangerous game for the democrats. Let me tell you! Her line about special needs families having and advoacate in the White House seemed so heartfelt and sincere that it brought tears to my eyes. I don't have a special needs child, but I could feel the hope for those who do. I want a bumper sticker that says "McCain/Palin because a woman's place is in the White House". |
| Posted by: Betty Grating2215 2008-09-04 09:49 |
| #6 "Forgive me God, but I love it so!" Channeling Gen. Patton, Gorb? |
| Posted by: no mo uro 2008-09-04 06:39 |
| #5 It has been my observation that the Dems only reach for the abortion card directly when they are out of other issues which they think are winners or are very, very scared and desperate. FWIW. |
| Posted by: no mo uro 2008-09-04 05:51 |
| #4 The MSM networks are going ballistic at her speech and apparently never imagined that anyone would dare bite back--and also at them, the 'elite media' of the press, no less! I anticipate that this will only get better and better. Talk about a Catch-22 situation. Every time she opens her mouth someone from The Establishment gets ripped, yet at the same time it sells press! Forgive me God, but I love it so! :-) |
| Posted by: gorb 2008-09-04 03:40 |
| #3 The empty suit and the stuffed shirt Thanks GK for the apt terms. Much more precise than my vague terms, "When a Chicago machine political lawyer goes to Washington DC to grab power and grabs a lifelong liberal Democrat talking head as an accomplice in crime." Please, win, Sarah, and send the talking heads of Washington and the media elite to their play pins at home for four years. (The end of global warming is when Washington talking head mouths shut.) |
| Posted by: Sick and tired of Washington DC Politics 2008-09-04 02:08 |
| #2 "Palin Bites Back" "The only difference between a pit bull dog and a hockey mom is the lipstick." Palin Time to invest in Johnson and Johnson's bandaid stock. Democrats are about to get mauled. |
| Posted by: Snosing and Tenille9185 2008-09-04 02:00 |
| #1 It's gonna be an interesting election season: The war hero and the real deal VS The empty suit and the stuffed shirt |
| Posted by: GK 2008-09-04 01:32 |