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| Home Front: Politix | |||
| Condi: America racist. Sort-of. It used to be for sure. Might still be a bit. | |||
| 2008-03-29 | |||
| Stop crying about the past. Just learn from it. Stop listening to the likes of "Reverend" Wright, who still lives in the past. Step forward into the present as more and more are thankfully doing. Opportunities abound for those who are conscious enough to sieze them. Black people's problems are more "internal" than "external" these days, for lack of a better way to put it. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said yesterday that the United States still has trouble dealing with race because of a national "birth defect" that denied black Americans the opportunities given to whites at the country's very founding. "Black Americans were a founding population," she said. "Africans and Europeans came here and founded this country together — Europeans by choice and Africans in chains. That's not a very pretty reality of our founding."
"That particular birth defect makes it hard for us to confront it, hard for us to talk about it, and hard for us to realize that it has continuing relevance for who we are today," she said. Race has become an issue in this year's presidential campaign, which prompted a much-discussed speech last week by Sen. Barack Obama, one of the two remaining contenders for the Democratic nomination. Miss Rice declined to comment on the campaign, saying only that it was "important" that Mr. Obama "gave it for a whole host of reasons." But she spoke forcefully on the subject, citing personal and family experience to illustrate "a paradox and contradiction in this country," which "we still haven't resolved." On the one hand, she said, race in the U.S. "continues to have effects" on public discussions and "the deepest thoughts that people hold." On the other, "enormous progress" has been made, which allowed her to become the nation's chief diplomat. "America doesn't have an easy time dealing with race," Miss Rice said, adding that members of her family have "endured terrible humiliations." "What I would like understood as a black American is that black Americans loved and had faith in this country even when this country didn't love and have faith in them — and that's our legacy," she said.
The proposal, much criticized by Mr. Obama and his Democratic rival Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, has been successful, Miss Rice said. During her wide-ranging interview with The Times, the secretary also said that boycotting the Summer Olympics in Beijing would be an ineffective way to address China's "troublesome policies" and called the U.S. boycott of the 1980 games in Moscow "feckless." "They invade Afghanistan and the best you can think of is to boycott the Olympics and keep athletes who have been training their entire life from going and competing," Miss Rice said of the Carter administration's decision to protest the Soviet regime at the time. "Who are you kidding? I do not see the benefit of boycotting," she said. "I do not think the boycott of the 1980 Olympics was very effective. In fact, I think it looked feckless."
"If you go there, I do think you have an obligation before, during and after to continue to engage the regime about troublesome policies," the secretary said. "This is a moment of international recognition for the Chinese people, too, and I would hate to do anything that is insulting to them as well — the people, not the regime," she said. Miss Rice cited resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, ending North Korea's nuclear programs, and securing Iraq and Afghanistan as the Bush administration's main foreign-policy priorities for the rest of its term. She leaves today on yet another Middle East trip to nudge Israelis and Palestinians toward reaching an agreement that would establish a Palestinian state by year's end. On Iraq, Miss Rice said she knew that rebuilding the country after the 2003 U.S.-led invasion would be tough, but she "didn't think it would be this tough." "What we didn't know was how truly broken the society was," she said. Although Saddam Hussein's regime was mostly to blame for that, she said that U.N. sanctions contributed as well, because as a result of them, "agriculture is virtually dead in Iraq." "As necessary as they might have been to try to put pressure on the regime, they also did a lot of damage," Miss Rice said of the sanctions. | |||
| Posted by:gorb |
| #19 good call, Em. - No can do with her USDS attitude and these recent pronouncements |
| Posted by: Frank G 2008-03-29 22:19 |
| #18 This is bad news, I think, because if Ms. Rice is giving interviews on race relations then that means they are trial ballooning a vice-presidential run for her. I was initially very enthusiastic about Condi but reluctantly conclude she has not lived up to my high expectations, and I do not think she should be on McCain's ticket. |
| Posted by: Seafarious 2008-03-29 22:12 |
| #17 Is there still predjudice? Yes Can government do anything but make it worse now? No Blacks need to pay a lot more attention to Bill Cosby than J. Wright and his ilk. The one thing that needs to be taught to Blacks is that most of the whites here back in the day were only a short step higher on the pecking order. Re: the Black flyboys et. al. of WWII they are a perfect example of part of the Peter Principle. Because of the bigotry then, only the best got even close to those roles. And the best of the best Blacks who made those units were awesome compared to anyone. |
| Posted by: AlanC 2008-03-29 18:20 |
| #16 I too am disappointed in Ms. Rice's comments. She knows better than to play into Obama/Rev. Wright's hands with these comments. Of course, the above arguments are some of the reasons I love living in Atlanta metro area. This is the "black Mecca", and while downtown and certain other areas have TONS of issues, this entire area is becoming a middle-class black playground. In fact, I believe Atlanta metro has been labelled the biggest group of middle class blacks in the nation. Now on to another point. Most of them are younger (like me) and have gone to college (albeit often a "Black historical" college like Morehouse, Tuskegee or others), but have had to "make it" on their own in the corporate world. Granted, yes, there are some effects from Affirmative Action, but as a whole, they do work just like anyone else, and worry about the same things I do (feeding their families, raising kids, etc.). The minus is, is that most of them (even the young ones, growing up AFTER the Civil Rights era) will vote Donk "because that's the way we've always done it." It's funny, because often when we talk, they find that (at least on social issues) they have the same beliefs I do (lower my taxes, promote marriage, defeat the homosexual agenda-pushers, and even some agree with me on abortion). I think the "school choice" subject is REALLY important to them, and most of them agree with it in principle. Yet, when I say "You're a Republican", they say "No way, man. That's for rich white guys." Shaking off *that* prejudice will move them forward light-years. I enjoy living here and relating to them (at work, at Church, etc.) and trying to show them how Gov't programs (like Welfare) do effect "their brothers" being stuck in the hood. Contrast these comments of Condi's with the recent comments (from Dr. Alveda King, MLK's neice) that abortion was "a Racist, Genocidal Act" and you see how far we've truly come. When you consider that America's richest woman is a black from "nowhere" Mississippi (Oprah), you see how far we've come. When you consider our nation's first black/female Nat'l Security Advisor and Secretary of State, as well as our first black Secretary of State (Powell) were under a "white rich guy's Party", you see how far we've come. |
| Posted by: BA 2008-03-29 17:37 |
| #15 There you go, NS - the State taking over successful businesses. ;-( Seriously, tho - what happened in Durham was deliberate and devastating. When we lived there in the early-mid 90s I talked with elderly white political and business leaders who admitted it - and spoke ruefully about the unintended consequences of those actions. |
| Posted by: lotp 2008-03-29 17:07 |
| #14 In Baltimore, at least, the numbers racket was also a black enterprise until the State of Maryland decided to take it. |
| Posted by: Nimble Spemble 2008-03-29 16:54 |
| #13 The poor get the crap end of the stick. When the poor are white they understand it's because they are poor. When the poor are black they believe it is because of race. If they could/would understand the roots of the poverty rather than writing it off as racism something could be done. Until then race relations will not change. |
| Posted by: rjschwarz 2008-03-29 16:41 |
| #12 And you will never, never, never hear about the civil war that cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans that settled the question that freedom is for all races, never will they mention that deadly and bloody conflict and the resulting defining moment in favor of African-Americans. |
| Posted by: www 2008-03-29 16:31 |
| #11 The black family disintegrated in the last half of the 20th century in part because of government policies on welfare. And in some places, deliberate destruction of thriving black middle class neighborhoods. Durham NC routed an interstate right smack dab through the middle of one such. Emminent domained black leaders' houses and businesses. The resulting highway also cut the neighborhoods in half with almost no through streets from one side to the other. There's a reason Durham is a racial mess with a heavy black underclass. And it's not just welfare. |
| Posted by: lotp 2008-03-29 16:28 |
| #10 True as far as it goes, but let's remember that most of the Europeans who came to America were rabble, separatists, or prisoners, just the sort of people the European kings and ministers didn't want. The European elites considered us trash then and still do today. True as far as it goes, but look at Australia, Criminals and guards all, and they've done wonders with the folk they have, People forget that the "Dissatisfied" are the ideal founders and adventurers, exactly what's needed. |
| Posted by: Redneck Jim 2008-03-29 16:13 |
| #9 Miss Rice cited resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict Litmus paper. |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2008-03-29 15:56 |
| #8 We're coming up on 150 years since the end of slavery. My ancestors on both sides of my family came to N. America (U.S. and Canada) after the turn of the century. I was born in the early 70's. I have never denied a black person a job, a loan, an apartment lease, an education, or anything else for that matter because of their race. We were broke when I was growing up, I worked my ass off and later returned to college and financed that through student loans. For all these reasons and more, I get pretty sick and f*cking tired of hearing blacks bitch and cry about terrible injustices that they cannot even quantify with words. They can all suck my ass, every one of the whining bastards that claim to be oppressed, repressed, suppressed or whatever. If a dumbass son of a mick policeman can go out and make his way in this world, all the while getting ripped off and kicked around by anyone who could manage to get in a position to do it to me, than anyone can. |
| Posted by: bigjim-ky 2008-03-29 14:52 |
| #7 I like to point out that the real divide isn't race, it is class. But ironically, that is where race comes into play. When blacks achieve the middle class through hard work, they were and are horrified that middle class whites do not *seem* to distinguish between them and the lower classes, black or white. The irony comes into play because the white middle class associates "being ignored" with success. When you achieve the middle class, you have earned the right to be like "anyone else", with no recognition of your middle class status. But to the blacks in the middle class, they think it means that they are being snubbed. More than anything, they are desperate to to blend in to the "middle class conversation." Once you become aware of this, and make the minimal effort to have just an ordinary, boring conversation with a middle class black person, you see the unexpected: gratitude. They are deeply grateful, as they see it as *recognition* of their middle class status. It is bizarre that such a seemingly trivial thing would build up such apprehension in middle class blacks, but it does. It is added on to the stress they feel in rejecting the ways of the lower classes: "No, your serving four years in prison is *not* equivalent to my Bachelor's degree!" The bottom line is that a problem still exists, yet it is not a great problem, but a petty problem. And once it is resolved, the disregard all the middle class feels for the lower classes will still be there. It won't be racism, however, it will be "classicism". |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2008-03-29 14:32 |
| #6 Pancho, I think you're seeing one end of things. As a doc in the south side of Chicago, I see another. ... blacks who worked hard and played by the rules got treated just like everybody else, if not better. Sometimes. It's generally true at the medical center; black people who are good at what they do are treated as one of the team. It's not necessarily true all the time. "if not better?" That might be an issue with affirmative action, but I haven't seen it very often here. Blacks have lots of problems, and they're all self inflicted. In part but not in whole. The black family disintegrated in the last half of the 20th century in part because of government policies on welfare. And anyone who's taken a sociology class knows that if you crowd any group of people into a ghetto, leave them poor, deny them upward mobility, beat on them with racist police and German shepards, etc., then you'll end up with a culture that strongly resembles what we have in the black sub-culture in today's large cities. There are plenty of American blacks are who moving up the ladder. I encounter them every day. But let's not deny the effects of four centuries of racism, slavery and segregation. That would be denying reality. |
| Posted by: Steve White 2008-03-29 14:07 |
| #5 I'm flat-out sick of the race hustlers. For me, that argument closed out a long time ago when I saw a Vietnamese boat person graduate valedictorian from the Air Force Academy. One of the best mini-commentaries on modern race relations I've ever seen...congrats, Pancho! As for Condi herself, "bitterly disappointed" is what comes to my mind. She's proven herself both strategically and tactically inept; allowed herself to become a captive of the Foggy Bottom bureaucracy and its "clientitis" disease; and-if this article's any indication-willing to entertain the arguments of the grievance-mongers and race hustlers. |
| Posted by: Ricky bin Ricardo (Abu Babaloo) 2008-03-29 13:37 |
| #4 I'm flat-out sick of the race hustlers. For me, that argument closed out a long time ago when I saw a Vietnamese boat person graduate valedictorian from the Air Force Academy. If a person who doesn't even speak the language can come to this country as a preteen dirt-poor refugee, work hard, and graduate top of his class at arguably the nation's most academically rigorous service academy, no one born here has any right to complain about lack of opportunity. Blacks have lots of problems, and they're all self inflicted. It's not people of other races that are knocking up young black women without marrying them and causing that 70+% illegitimacy rate. Whitey's not forcing drugs and liquor down black throats and into black arms at gunpoint, and he's not doing drive-by shootings in the 'hood, either. Blacks are handling that very well themselves, thanks. As a group they've largely rejected the social path that every other ethnic group in America has invariably found to lead to success: hard work, cooperation, and education to the maximum amount possible. Apparently they're not into that because it's acting too "white." I've worked with a lot of blacks over my life and I have no special sympathy for them; if they're not treated as equals, it's because, like the Muzz, they've shown themselves to not be worthy of such treatment. In my experience, blacks who worked hard and played by the rules got treated just like everybody else, if not better. The problem I saw was that there were just too many "playas" who had a chip on their shoulder the size of a log about their race and who thought the rules everyone else obeyed didn't pertain to them. A better question to ask would be to wonder why so many blacks from the Caribbean seem so squared away and ready to follow that well-trodden path to success, while the U.S. home-grown variety has so many losers wanting to point fingers everywhere but at the real cause of their problems: themselves. I have no real idea why there is such a difference, but it's definitely there and I've heard both black and white confirm it many times. Find out what creates that difference and you're well on the road toward solving the problem. |
| Posted by: Pancho Elmeck8414 2008-03-29 13:25 |
| #3 Damn Yankees. Think of losing 30 pu trucks, I wants recompensery |
| Posted by: Zebulon Angavick7428 2008-03-29 13:21 |
| #2 "a national 'birth defect' that denied black Americans the opportunities given to whites at the country's very founding" I'm white. Most of us white families were not here at the country's founding. And most of those that were here did not own plantations. My family's earliest forefather here came from England in the mid-1600s as an indentured servant. He did not have land or slaves. The generations that followed were mostly fisherman and small farmers. No wealth. No plantations. No one went off to college until the GI Bill made it possible after WWII. My wife's family's earliest forefather here came from eastern Europe by way of Ellis Island around 1910. No slaves or land or wealth there either. My wife's generation was the first to go to college in that lineage. I'm getting tired of hearing about slavery. My people didn't have anything to do about it. I'm getting tired of being lumped in with all whites as the rich descendants of evil plantation owners. It's a sham. Get over it. Shame on you, Condoleeza Rice. |
| Posted by: Darrell 2008-03-29 12:36 |
| #1 "Black Americans were a founding population," she said. "Africans and Europeans came here and founded this country together — Europeans by choice and Africans in chains. Missed that part about importing African slaves cause the 'elites' of that time ran out of white slaves, indentured servants, and the usual collection of 'losers' of the last fight back in the o'home country? But you don't understand. The new racism is 'just ignoring them'. The run of the 'guilt card' era is quickly ending, so the race hustlers have got to find a new gig to keep the game going. Its never been about 'equality' for them, it's been about POWER. |
| Posted by: Procopius2k 2008-03-29 12:05 |