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| Israel-Palestine-Jordan |
| Vatican official backs right of return |
| 2007-11-29 |
| A Vatican official said Wednesday that Palestinian refugees have the right to return to their homeland, and said he hoped Israeli-Palestinian peace talks would address the issue. Cardinal Renato Martino, who heads the Vatican's office for migrants, said an agreement to restart peace talks, reached Tuesday in Annapolis, Maryland, was encouraging and that he hoped by this time next year concrete measures would be under way. "It is my hope that all the parts of the problem are taken into consideration such as that of the Palestinian refugees, who like all other refugees, have the right to return to their homeland," Martino said. |
| Posted by:Fred |
| #36 While it'll never raise an army again, it could still do very well at raising support. Not so long as idiots like Cardinal Renato Martino have the microphone. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2007-11-29 21:54 |
| #35 Eric, As I understand it, European Jews were the first group attacked during the Crusades in the spring of 1096. I wasn't trying to imply that a collective of knights thrown together was an amazing army. Though it did damn well for what it was and how far from home it was, my point was more about the Catholic Churches role in organizing the Crusades. While it'll never raise an army again, it could still do very well at raising support. |
| Posted by: Mike N. 2007-11-29 21:24 |
| #34 I dunno, Mike N. My ancestors didn't do well during the Crusades. The Jewish communities in Rhineland were devastated by the marching armies, and the communities in the Holy land were treated similarly. Let's not forget that the sacking of Constantinople during the Fourth Crusade led directly to the Byzantine Empire's dissolution. |
| Posted by: Eric Jablow 2007-11-29 21:15 |
| #33 And in general, its impossible to fire him unless there is gross personal misconduct. Ummm ... doesn't undermining the specific intentions of the Holy See sorta qualify as "misconduct"? If one single person on earth still retains anything close to Absolute Power, I would think it is the Pope. There's gotta be some way Benedict can slingshot this puppy out of the Vatican. As Darth noted, reassignment to Iran certainly has a distinctly appealing notion to it. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2007-11-29 18:57 |
| #32 Reestablish Antioch! I want some Crusader Kingdoms. If the Papal states are gonna get involved they should really get invovled. The crusaders are blamed by Muslims anyway, conquer and establish good government, then at least you can be blamed for real acts and not for fiction. |
| Posted by: rjschwarz 2007-11-29 18:33 |
| #31 Maybe another Italian job opening up for a German? |
| Posted by: Nimble Spemble 2007-11-29 18:03 |
| #30 Forgot to spell check against my dyslexia. Sorry for the reversed letters. "overstepping the bounds" |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2007-11-29 16:03 |
| #29 Feel free to trash individual as they deserve. And this Cardinal certainly has earned it IMHO. He has a LOT of Catholics outside Italy pretty angry with his consistent support of socialism and anti-US rhetoric. Of those who know of this guy and some of the other liberal establishment "Vaticanisti", almost all are angry at them for overspetting the bounds of faith and becoming too wordly (Leae the wordly to thsoe of us in it, the lay people). This indcludes probably all of the Knights of Columbus that I know - a vary conservative group in general there, with good overlap between KoC higher degrees and American Legion + VFW, plus cops and firefighters. So, open season on them the same as you woudl the UU nutjobs or Presbyterian nutjobs, Anglican nutjobs (like the "Archdruid" who is busy destroying the Anglican communion), etc. Go after them for being nutjobs, not the particular denomination; thats fair and proper. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2007-11-29 15:58 |
| #28 I'm afraid that too many Italians are anti-Israel and anti-Jewish. IMO, It isn't rational but a transfer of their own Humiliation, a left over sentiment, a residue like resentment from WII for the Humiliation of the Duce and the complete Humiliation of the Italian Armed Forces. The Pope should straiten this asshole Cardinal Renato Martino out. |
| Posted by: Red Dawg 2007-11-29 15:04 |
| #27 Maybe reciprocal right of return to all refugees is part of the solution...all Jews may return to an expanded Israel, all illegal immigrants can return to country of origin, and all Palestinians to a homeland with borders yet to be determined. And the Vatican can be sovereign over Rome, freeing the world's citizens to self-rule over their own affairs. |
| Posted by: Danielle 2007-11-29 14:41 |
| #26 Thanks for the background, OldSpook. As a Protestant, I try to be understanding and respectful of the Catholic Church and I find that the older I get the more I appreciate it. In all fairness there are plenty of moonbats in my church too. So how about if I bash the Cardinal as an individual and leave the Church as a whole out of it? At least I won't get beheaded for it. |
| Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 2007-11-29 14:28 |
| #25 I wouldn't have been as persuasive. |
| Posted by: Thor Gluck3798 2007-11-29 13:59 |
| #24 Everyone has their bad apples, do I need to point to our state department as a prime example? So stop with the ignorant Catholic bashing. Bashe Renato, but cut the BS trashing of Catholicism and the Pope. Amen to that! Glad you said it, wouldn't have been as persuasive. Or nice. |
| Posted by: Thor Gluck3798 2007-11-29 13:57 |
| #23 Some of you may remember from your history that the Catholic Church did a pretty damn good job of fighting the Muslims in Israel. Keep in mind that if it ever happens again, the Catholic Church if an organization that we will want, and likely will be, on our side again if it should ever happen. |
| Posted by: Mike N. 2007-11-29 13:55 |
| #22 Cardinal Renato has a habit of speaking out of turn. He did it to JOhn Paul II, and now does it to Pope Benedict. Its the Vatican's equivalent of a State Department, and is just as much a liberal (even socilist) loose cannon organization in the Church as it is in the US. Several times Renato was directly contradicted by Pope John Paul II. FYI Renato is one of those "Liberation Theology" morons who is still hanging around. And in general, its impossible to fire him unless there is gross personal misconduct. The main reason behind his thinking is that Renato belives it is his charge to speak up for any and every refugee, and he ignores context when doing so (i.e. he imagines them all to be innocent, which is wrong). This allows the Church to demand that Christians who were in Iran, for example, be given their homes back and be kept secure in them. Its part of the "Freedom to practice religion" doctrine he has developed in the Vatican's State Department, albeit extended to rediculous extremes (as liberals tend to do). Everyone has their bad apples, do I need to point to our state department as a prime example? So stop with the ignorant Catholic bashing. Bashe Renato, but cut the BS trashing of Catholicism and the Pope. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2007-11-29 13:16 |
| #21 If I remember my history correctly, it was the Romans who drove the Jews out of Israel in the first place back in about 70 A.D. Dunno what business the Romans thought they had in Israel, something about an empire I guess. But I think the Jews were pretty unhappy about it. How about a right to return for the Joooooos, there, Cardinal? BTW, if the Palestinians weren't a bunch of homicidal maniacs this problem could have been peacefully resolved a long time ago. |
| Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305 2007-11-29 12:57 |
| #20 Does this mean I can go back to Massachusetts? |
| Posted by: Bernie Law 2007-11-29 12:53 |
| #19 I wonder if Jesus has any right to return to Bethlehem. |
| Posted by: wxjames 2007-11-29 12:50 |
| #18 In all fairness, is this Cardinal Renato Martino a loose cannon on the Vatican decks? It's difficult to imagine that such a high-level statement was issued without Pontifical vetting. Moreover, this position completely upends previous calls for "reciprocity" which, until now, had served as a significant conerstone in Benedict's assault upon Islam. To demand Palestinian right of return without a reciprocal right for all the displaced Jews of that same era is a ghastly abortion of justice. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2007-11-29 12:15 |
| #17 I guess the theocrats are looking out for each other, regardless of religion. Now that's going to leave a mark! |
| Posted by: Zenster 2007-11-29 11:50 |
| #16 My memory is slipping. When exactly did anyone ask for the Vaticans position on the Right of Return? |
| Posted by: rjschwarz 2007-11-29 11:25 |
| #15 I support the right of return for decendents of Roman slaves to the territory of Vatican City. |
| Posted by: spiffo 2007-11-29 11:16 |
| #14 Hey Renato, soon you'll die---and then you'll have to explain to the boss why you dissed his relatives. |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2007-11-29 10:54 |
| #13 The Vatican needs to fire this asshole. Or send him on a permanent missionary mission to Iran. |
| Posted by: DarthVader 2007-11-29 10:31 |
| #12 Cardinal Martino is the Chuck Schumer of the Curia - he's always on the lookout for a mic and a camera, and he's ardent student in the use of the first person singular pronoun. |
| Posted by: mrp 2007-11-29 10:12 |
| #11 I don't have time to look but I think this guy has come up before. One of those permanent bureaucracy people from the Vatican's equivalent of the state department. |
| Posted by: Abdominal Snowman 2007-11-29 09:51 |
| #10 I guess the theocrats are looking out for each other, regardless of religion. |
| Posted by: Glenmore 2007-11-29 09:27 |
| #9 Ponderous. Just ponderous. |
| Posted by: newc 2007-11-29 08:32 |
| #8 Oh, and previously he was the Vatican's permanent observer at the UN for nearly 2 decades. |
| Posted by: lotp 2007-11-29 08:26 |
| #7 Martino is Italian churchman, Cardinal Deacon, President of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace and Pastoral Care of Migrants and Itinerant People in the Roman Catholic Church. He denounced the death sentence for Saddam Hussein and called for a conference to establish peace throughout the middle east. He's opposed our presence in Iraq from the start as well. |
| Posted by: lotp 2007-11-29 08:25 |
| #6 So the Silesian Germans are going to get to return and recover their lands lost in '45-6? Have you discussed this with the Polish government, because we're dealing with a 'principle' here? |
| Posted by: Procopius2k 2007-11-29 08:06 |
| #5 A good example of why the West is dying. |
| Posted by: SR-71 2007-11-29 08:01 |
| #4 Martino sounds like a European name to me. His opinion does not surpirse me at all. |
| Posted by: Mike N. 2007-11-29 02:11 |
| #3 Note that no one seems to mention the right of return of Jews to places from which they were chased away after the first Israel's war. One has to ask... What gives? |
| Posted by: Spike Uniter 2007-11-29 01:06 |
| #2 Any Jewish right of return? NO EFFING WAY! Idiots! |
| Posted by: Zenster 2007-11-29 01:02 |
| #1 Way to go, you damned morons. Prolong one of the most hideous and bloody conflicts on earth. What in Hell is there that makes it possible for you to grant murderous Islam this sort of credibility? The Vatican just marginalized itself in a major way. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2007-11-29 01:00 |