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| Iraq |
| In Iraq, Conflict on a Second Kurdish Front |
| 2007-10-23 |
| Deadly raids into Turkey by Kurdish militants holed up in northern Iraq are the focus of urgent diplomacy, with Turkey threatening invasion of Iraq and the United States begging for restraint while expressing solidarity with Turkish anger. Yet out of the public eye, a chillingly similar battle has been under way on the Iraqi border with Iran. Kurdish guerrillas ambush and kill Iranian forces and retreat to their hide-outs in Iraq. The Americans offer Iran little sympathy. Tehran even says Washington aids the Iranian guerrillas, a charge the United States denies. True or not, that conflict, like the Turkish one, has explosive potential. Sounds like the Kurds are taking the fight to Iran - and the US is not opposed to action there! Not so sure of those Marxist leanings though! |
| Posted by:WxMan |
| #16 Why go after a few hundred PKK in Iraq when there are several thousand in Turkey? I smell something more than anti-terrorism incursions into Iraq. Os has it right. |
| Posted by: Deacon Blues 2007-10-23 18:31 |
| #15 TW, true. But they haven't had two full armored divisions, deployed in echelon (offensively) snugged up on the border instead of spread slong it, nor did they have corps elemetns moved in. THe fact that they have not gone to combined arms and have pure armored formations in an area with mountainous terrain very strongly implies ther are threatening to assualt through the area, not into the area, and have furhter destintations in mind. Perhaps the Iraq government's moves and the HUS delay might be enough to keep them from going deep, but the best solution woudl be to deploy a US unit, perhaps Rangers, to the aregion to unt and kill the PKK near Turkey, and remove that as an excuse for the most anti-American nation in the region to have 2 armored divisions lined up in assault formation toward Kirkuk. That the PKK has hung aroudn this long does not speak wellof the Kurdish government nor US command, but it is excusable in that they have had other things (Al Qaeda, Sunnis, SHias, etc) occupying them. Bush ought to make the grand gesture of sendin in the Rangers now, and following up with the reserve battalion until winter sets in (and once that happens the PKK goes quiet anyway). |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2007-10-23 18:12 |
| #14 Turkey apparently has had troops sitting (and presumably quietly doing things) on the Iraqi side of the Kurdish border since at least the early stage of the post-'91 No Fly Zone. Just as Iran has had trade delegations as honoured guests of the Kurdish government. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2007-10-23 18:01 |
| #13 I would do what Spook and Remoteman suggest. Put US troops in the north to go PKK hunting and tell the Kurds to keep a lid on the Turkish forays or we end the PKK, permanently. Last thing we need is Turkey sticking their nose in Iraq. |
| Posted by: DarthVader 2007-10-23 16:24 |
| #12 Pretty sure this will come to blows between Turkey and us. I hope we have a plan to get our men out of bases in Turkey (I thought we had a couple, not really knowledgable about that). Reason I say this is just read that a Kurdish website released video of who they claim is the missing Turkish soldiers, with names and hometowns. If true Turkey needs no more provocation to go into N Iraq. |
| Posted by: Charles 2007-10-23 15:52 |
| #11 We need to get the Iraqi Kurd government sit on the PKK and fast. Getting into a fight with Turkey is the last thing we want in that region and would virtually guarantee a muslim vs. The West conflict. This is the time to consolidate our gains not destabilize the most peaceful, prosperous region in Iraq. |
| Posted by: remoteman 2007-10-23 13:46 |
| #10 Turkey has a whiff of Yugoslavia to it, as I recall. Be a shame to see it split up. In fact it would be a shame to see the whole ME rationalized. |
| Posted by: Nimble Spemble 2007-10-23 13:35 |
| #9 What woudl I do? I'd tell the Turks we are goign to go after the PKK, and put a Ranger battalion there immediately, while whistling up the heavier battalion or 2 from reserve in Kuwait. Rangers there NOW - even to the point of dropping in a Ranger company by parachute TODAY. And I would privately remind the Turks that if they attack US forces there, we will destroy the Turkish army units in Iraq, and then we will arm and support (clandestinely) all the Kurds in the region, including the large numbers of them in Eastern Turkey. We will actively seek the overthrow of the government and the eventual destruction of Turkey as it exists now. All of the latter "off the record" and kept completely deniable, but very unmistakably told. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2007-10-23 12:49 |
| #8 If the Turks roll into N Iraq to any depth,, we will lose Iraq. Period. The best soldiers and commanders in the Iraqi Army are Kurdish, and they will head home to defend thier homes and cities against their ancient enemies, the Turks. Absent them, our efforts in Baghdad will fail because we will not have enough quality Iraqi units to complete the "Surge" work. And if the central government looks at this as an invasion, they will order ALL their units out of Baghdad (convenient for their Shiite militia buddies) to head north and fight to eject the Turks. We need to put a unit up there on the border and do it NOW. Put it there publicly "To Hunt the PKK" and thus help the Turks, but privately tell the Turks that if they cross the border, they will be engaging US troops, and will have to bear the consequences of a full US strike which will destroy any Turkish forces in the north of Iraq, sending lots of body bags home, forever ending their chances at the EU, and probably getting them tossed OUT of NATO. We need to get the US forces there to up the ante and make the Turks realize we cannot and will not stand by while they destroy our work in Iraq. If we do not they might be bold and stupid enough to start a war that will result in the destruction of the modern Turkish state. If they roll across and try to take Kirkuk, then a full US counterattack will be neccesary and a state of war should be declared by Iraq against Turkey - meaning we can arm unleash all those Kurds in the region to destroy stuff in Turkey (probably starting a huge civil war in Turkey, as the Eastrn Kurdish majority will probably very quickly declare independance once thye have means to resist). This would be while our military destroyes those units and forces the Turks back across the border, and the Iraqis fill thier POW camps with Turks. The worst thing is that N Iraq is the best run, most deomcratic and prosperous westernized area of Iraq, and the Turks are about to demolish it because theer backward ass racist Kemalist country cannot stand free Kurds nearby - its a threat to their existence. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2007-10-23 12:29 |
| #7 They are all muslims. All of them will turn on us, the infidels, as soon as we are no longer of use to them. |
| Posted by: ed 2007-10-23 12:22 |
| #6 Memo to PKK: Concentrate on Iran and we will help, leave the Turks alone or we will wipe you out. |
| Posted by: Heriberto Ulusomble6667 2007-10-23 12:11 |
| #5 AS: That may be, but we can't allow Turkey to interfere in Iraq while we are making huge progress down south. What's to say Turkey won't begin a long-term occupation of northern Iraq if they do? What's to stop them from goign all the way down to Kirkuk, claiming the PKK has retreated down there and taking the oil fields? If we allow Turkey to interfere it opens up an excuse for Iran to send in troops as well. We may very well be playing into the PKK's hands if this turns into war, but it's something we have to do regardless. Not doing anything against Turkey is a far worse option. |
| Posted by: Charles 2007-10-23 11:57 |
| #4 I had not previously known that. VERY interesting. I smell Rats-Putin at work, in that case. |
| Posted by: eLarson 2007-10-23 11:12 |
| #3 Guys, you realize that the PKK started out as a batch of proxies for the countries-formerly-known-as-the-soviet-union and if they're still working in that capacity they're much more interested in seeing war break out between the US and Turkey than they are in doing anything wrt Iran? |
| Posted by: Abdominal Snowman 2007-10-23 10:29 |
| #2 We could easily reorder the PKK and the rest of the Kurds to think of, plan for, and actively involve themselves with breaking Iranian Kurdistan off from Iran to join it to Iraqi Kurdistan. More persuasion and advise than assistance. Things like suggesting what targets in Iran to attack, for example. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2007-10-23 09:16 |
| #1 Well, one can view PKK and IRG as matter and antimatter. E.g., some form of energy is being released. |
| Posted by: twobyfour 2007-10-23 07:46 |