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| Giuliani says NATO should admit Israel, Japan, Oz, India, Singapore |
| 2007-09-20 |
| Republican presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani urged NATO to admit Australia, India, Israel, Japan and Singapore on Wednesday as part of proposals to combat Islamic extremism. Speaking to a U.S.-British conservative group in London, Giuliani said Britain and the United States must stand side-by-side in tackling Islamic terrorism. "This is no time for defeatism and appeasement," he said. He also ruled out a "pre-determined timetable" for a U.S. pullout from Iraq and said British Prime Minister Gordon Brown was right to reject such a timetable for British forces. Victory there should depend on reaching a point at which Iraq could be maintained as a U.S. ally "in the terrorist war against us," said Giuliani, Republican frontrunner in the race to succeed George W. Bush in the November 2008 election. Iraq was part of a much larger war, Giuliani said, urging Washington and London not to be distracted from Afghanistan, where he called for a redoubling of efforts. Among his proposals for the United States and Britain to take the lead in "winning this war," Giuliani urged the two countries to push for an expansion of NATO into a global body. "We should open the organization's membership to any willing state that meets basic standards of good governance, military readiness (and) global responsibility, regardless of location," he said. "I think we should consider countries such as Australia, Singapore, India, Israel, Japan ... and there are probably a whole group of others that we could put on that list," he said. The defense alliance has expanded in recent years but its current membership is 26 countries in North America and Europe. Facing increasing war-weariness in the United States, Bush last week ordered gradual troop reductions in Iraq but defied calls for a dramatic change of course. Giuliani, giving the first "Margaret Thatcher Atlantic Bridge" lecture to an audience that included the former British prime minister, called for an expansion of the U.S. military, saying it had cut back too much after the Cold War. "We need to add at least 10 new combat brigades, that's probably just the beginning," Giuliani said, adding the United States faced not only Islamic terrorism, but also had to consider the possibility of a "large war with a nation state." Speaking earlier, Giuliani said the United States should spell out clearly to Iran that it would not allow Tehran to acquire nuclear weapons. Giuliani said he had discussed Iran with Brown, his predecessor Tony Blair and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in the past few days. The West suspects Iran is developing atomic weapons but Tehran says its nuclear program is aimed solely at generating electric power. "The policy of the United States of America should be very, very clear: we will use any option we believe is in our best interest to stop them from being a nuclear power," Giuliani said |
| Posted by:lotp |
| #25 Absolutely no reason why these other countries should go save Eurabia. Let europe stew in its own juices. |
| Posted by: hutchrun 2007-09-20 23:53 |
| #24 I wish I were as well travelled as you think, Zenster dear. I still haven't been to California, f'r instance. But what a charming story! I hope that once the trailing daughters are away at university, I'll be able to join Mr. Wife on some of his more interesting business trips -- he'll be so busy during the day he won't notice if I toddle off by myself and meet interesting strangers like yours... or the local Rantburgers for tea. ;-) |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2007-09-20 23:48 |
| #23 trailing wife, someone so well traveled as yourself would absolutely adore a stint in Taiwan. My six-week sojourn there still rates amongst one of the most vibrant and enjoyable adventures in my entire life. The Taiwanese were some of the most delightful and fun-to-know people that I have ever met. Anecdote: During my last week in Taoyuan—some 40 miles south of Taipei—I had decided to revisit my most favorite restaurant of all. Appropriately enough, named “Happy Mouth”. The tangerine pork served there is a recipe I still seek to re-create. Their simple omelet of stunningly fresh shrimp, garden peas and egg was a masterpiece. A blind man could order from the menu and do no wrong. It was my hope that on a weekend they might serve dim-sum. Sadly, my restaurant Chinese is almost entirely restricted to the Cantonese required for ordering yum-cha. In Mandarin, “dim sum” becomes ~ “din shien” and so I was reduced to gesticulating like an Italian real estate salesman trying to close a deal. Just after ordering all of my favorites, I watched a server deliver some dim sum-like items to an adjoining table. I vigorously pointed to the objects of my desire and before the waiter could respond, I found myself invited to the table of my neighbors. Curiously enough, they had ordered all of the same things I had plus a few other delicacies. Arthur and Ann Yang proceeded to—not only walk me through other delights on offer but—invite me to accompany them on a tour of Taoyuan’s old-town district, including local Buddhist temples and the ancient woodworking district as well. First, though, I was required to help them taste samples of their prospective wedding cakes. Never have I savored such odd combinations of sweet pastries and sundry ingredients like dried mushrooms or the odd Asian spice. Still, as we parted ways in Taoyuan’s old-town, they would not dare to hear of me paying my own bus fare back to my hotel. Rest assured, revenge was mine. Knowing of their impending wedding, I retained enough Taiwanese currency and—upon my return stateside—sent them, replete with red envelope and all, some $100 DT of Taiwanese currency to celebrate their marriage. I cannot but think that you would also encounter people of similar quality if you had the good fortune of visiting Taiwan. My memories of Formosa are so dear that—even today—I still feel homesick for that not-at-all-foreign land. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2007-09-20 23:33 |
| #22 Giuliani likely proposed NATO because it's an existing defense organization with established procedures for inter-operability (friendly non-NATO countries already use some of them). |
| Posted by: Pappy 2007-09-20 22:31 |
| #21 Bummer, 3dc. But no such move is on offer as far as I'm aware, anyway. Still, in my dreams the cement dust has settled. ;-) (And it would be so much fun to learn Mandarin properly! I found out after a year of slogging that I need to be immersed to master that one.) |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2007-09-20 21:09 |
| #20 TW - your allergies might not like Taiwan these cement days. |
| Posted by: 3dc 2007-09-20 21:03 |
| #19 No to New Zealand until they grow up, please. But thinking totally out of the box, how about both Singapore and Taiwan? Two places I would move to in a minute if Mr. Wife got a good transfer offer. ;-) |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2007-09-20 20:13 |
| #18 We'll have to agree to disagree, Secret Master. Shari'a law is a total deal-breaker and must remain so. Even a whiff of such Islamic bullshit is fatal to authentic liberty and freedom. We have idiotically allowed it to be re-enacted in Afghanistan and Iraq, contrary to our own national security. No country on earth must be permitted to engage in such a wholesale violation of human rights. Shari'a is the handmaiden of Islamic theocracy and therefore verboten in even a minimally civilized world. There must be absolutely no latitude granted on this issue. Excising the cancer of Islam includes cauterizing all traces of shari'a law. Period. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2007-09-20 18:53 |
| #17 agreed on Japan, Israel, India and Oz, but lets realy start throwing faeces at the ventilator and take Taiwan instead of Singapore. |
| Posted by: drive by lurker 2007-09-20 16:56 |
| #16 Hmmmmm.... Keep NATO, but form a SEA Treaty Alliance of countries that DON'T PISS US OFF (that much.) Japan, Singapore, Oz, Nz: in S. Korea can send an observer until they get their little protest kids under control. Israel is a Special Alliance. India is making the right moves, but too early. |
| Posted by: Free Radical 2007-09-20 15:36 |
| #15 You make a good point, but my gut reaction (and it's just that: a gut reaction) based on reading about the current and past history of the Kurds is that it wouldn't play out that way. The Kurds have been tolerant of the Azeri for a thousand years. Saying that "Islamic sharia law will be considered as one of the major sources for legislation making" could mean they want to be like Iran, or it could mean they want to be like Ireland. I'm guessing it would turn out somewhere in between leaning in the direction of Ireland. |
| Posted by: Secret Master 2007-09-20 15:30 |
| #14 I suspect Rudy sees Europe as a future battle field in the war on Islam. In that, NATO forces would be appropiate no matter how limp they are today as a fighting force. Also, NATO is active in Afghanistan and hopefully improving as a fighting force. Rudy's inclusion of India and Israel in recognition that these countries have their own wars against Islam, and we (NATO) should be contributing toward their victories, which we are in many ways. Including Japan, Australia, and others (New Zealand, Philipines, South Korea) is a clue to Rudy's understanding that the war on Islam is or should be global. Currently, much of these efforts are already being done without formal declarations of war, and without these efforts spreading from confined locations (like into Pakistan). Also, the open creation of an operational axis sends Russia, China and lesser pains in the ass a clear message. And finally, this would set the stage for dumping the UN much like the League of Nations was dumped. I accept those with a problem about Rudy's religious conservatism, but he is a great potential war president. He gets it, and he is a brilliant strategist. He also has a wide trail of tax cuts......brilliant, Spemble, brilliant. |
| Posted by: wxjames 2007-09-20 14:19 |
| #13 Agree w/ DV, plus check the map; there seems to be a shortage of coastine or even proximity to the Northern Atlantic......(unless the impending global warming and resulting melting of all the ice in the world creates new coastlines and this is then a brilliant move by Rudy the Magnificent). |
| Posted by: USN, Ret. 2007-09-20 14:19 |
| #12 And a free Kurdistan would have that? Are you certain? Um ... yes. We Say No to a Medieval Kurdish Constitution |
| Posted by: Zenster 2007-09-20 13:51 |
| #11 And a free Kurdistan would have that? Are you certain? |
| Posted by: Secret Master 2007-09-20 13:28 |
| #10 Maybe we could even throw in a helpful Islamic country. Say, Kurdistan. Ummm ... no. Enactment of shari'a law should exclude any country from admittance. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2007-09-20 13:13 |
| #9 Another person agreeing with Darth. A second alliance perhaps, as we disband NATO. |
| Posted by: rjschwarz 2007-09-20 13:11 |
| #8 What Darth said. I'm all for a new treaty organization that would include the countries, plus England, Poland, and maybe a few other eastern European nations. Maybe we could even throw in a helpful Islamic country. Say, Kurdistan. |
| Posted by: Secret Master 2007-09-20 13:03 |
| #7 What Darth said. We need a strong Asian alliance to work against China. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2007-09-20 12:04 |
| #6 This is one of the dumbest proposals I have heard of. Giuliani is not a particularly attractive candidate outside of his response, as mayor, to the attack on NYC. If this is indicative of the level of his thinking about how to conduct the war, he makes Fred or Mitt worthy of a stronger second look. |
| Posted by: Nimble Spemble 2007-09-20 10:01 |
| #5 NATO would ruin these fine countries. |
| Posted by: 3dc 2007-09-20 09:43 |
| #4 Unless Rubi is thinking of using NATO to replace the UN. Ineffectually Lite. It it would at least reduce the number of third world wannabe states in the general assembly. Full flavor, less filling. |
| Posted by: Procopius2k 2007-09-20 09:12 |
| #3 More dittos for Darth. |
| Posted by: Excalibur 2007-09-20 08:59 |
| #2 Concur yr analysis, DV. |
| Posted by: eLarson 2007-09-20 08:05 |
| #1 I wouldn't put them in NATO. Those poor countries have done nothing that bad to deserve that. Besides, NATO is no longer an alliance, it is a boy's club. I would create a new global alliance of like minded democracies and ask them, as well as some eastern Europe countries (like Poland) to join. |
| Posted by: DarthVader 2007-09-20 08:03 |