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My plea to fellow Muslims: you must renounce terror |
2007-07-02 |
As the bombers return to Britain, Hassan Butt, who was once a member of radical group Al-Muhajiroun, raising funds for extremists and calling for attacks on British citizens, explains why he was wrong. When I was still a member of what is probably best termed the British Jihadi Network, a series of semi-autonomous British Muslim terrorist groups linked by a single ideology, I remember how we used to laugh in celebration whenever people on TV proclaimed that the sole cause for Islamic acts of terror like 9/11, the Madrid bombings and 7/7 was Western foreign policy. By blaming the government for our actions, those who pushed the 'Blair's bombs' line did our propaganda work for us. More important, they also helped to draw away any critical examination from the real engine of our violence: Islamic theology. |
Posted by:twobyfour |
#13 Hassan Butt? YCMTSU |
Posted by: mojo 2007-07-02 16:35 |
#12 I'm now working on option eleven in a modified form. Obviously, that would be option TEN and not eleven. I think we can all agree that avoiding option eleven is a desirable thing to do. |
Posted by: Zenster 2007-07-02 15:26 |
#11 Many times in differing explanations you've carefully explained why Islam must be eliminated if western civilization is to survive. To clarify: Right now, my main position is that Islam must be abolished in all Western countries to preserve their constitutional law and respective cultures. Elimination of it worldwide is another matter and my own view is that it seems rather predictable that Islam will incur the West's nuclear wrath with some hideous atrocity in the not too distant future. What you've stated today, perfectly summarizes and encapsulates the reasoning. Thank you, Woozle Elmeter. On topics of this importance I've always felt it was imperative to back one's stance with some sort of reasoned argument. I never take time to provide explanations, I just want to abolish it. After years of endless Islamic crapulence, I find it difficult to blame you for feeling that way. My own patience has worn paper thin as well. If it means abolishing millions of Muslims too, I could care less. The human part of me would rather avoid this if possible. To date, Islam has done nothing but increase the likelihood of a Muslim holocaust. I believe that our next step should escalate along the lines of David D.'s list of options: (can't find a link so here they are) The War on Islamic Terrorism: We're currently at option six. I'm unwilling to undergo Orwellian domestic security levels, so that rules out option seven. Simply bombing out the leadership structure of nations who sponsor terrorism is a close approximation to option eight, just without the occupation. My suggestions that the West needs to consider using option nine haven't been particularly well-received. I'm now working on option eleven in a modified form. However, I believe that the quarrantine (q'arantine) needs to manifest as a cordon around the MME (Muslim Middle East) in order to contain this world's recongregated Muslim population. The expulsion of Muslims from Western countries appears to be one of the few humane options we have left. All the fancy talk is worthless. I dispute that notion. Using points gathered here and some of my own, I've been able to sway other people's opinions over to a better understanding of why Islam is so evil. It's something we all need to be doing to help save America. A showdown is here now and either we respond or we don't. While the showdown may not be here exactly now, I agree that it is a lot closer than most people think. I also feel that we should be working on the assumption of one being necessary in order to best prepare ourselves for what is coming. One culture will be eliminated. Given Islam's refusal to reform or coexist, that seems to be a certainty. I know which one I want to eleiminate and I really don't give a rip about the opinion of anyone else. However nice it would be to avoid annihilation of the MME, Islam continues to make this entire issue into an "either or" proposition. Given that fact, my money isn't on Islam. |
Posted by: Zenster 2007-07-02 15:22 |
#10 #7 Zen, Many times in differing explanations you've carefully explained why Islam must be eliminated if western civilization is to survive. What you've stated today, perfectly summarizes and encapsulates the reasoning. I never take time to provide explanations, I just want to abolish it. If it means abolishing millions of Muslims too, I could care less. All the fancy talk is worthless. A showdown is here now and either we respond or we don't. One culture will be eliminated. I know which one I want to eleiminate and I really don't give a rip about the opinion of anyone else. |
Posted by: Woozle Elmeter2970 2007-07-02 12:50 |
#9 bravo to the Guardian for printing this (maybe the NYT will do so - don't hold your breath). but the most interesting thing was that in the comments there were only a few 'but we kill poor Afgans' so we are as guilty responses and a lot of 'Islam really, really has problems' comments |
Posted by: mhw 2007-07-02 11:01 |
#8 I have no doubt that this guy is seen as a sellout to the religion, even to the muted mythical, moderate muslims. The fact that there are no outraged muslims, no muslim protests against terror, no self-policing speaks volumes about the prevailing attitudes within the community. So, renounce terror? Hardly. I think they privately feel empowered by it. |
Posted by: PlanetDan 2007-07-02 10:49 |
#7 A Muslim cannot renounce violence as a means for furthering his religion without a corresponding ignorance or denial of his own creed. Worst of all there does not seem any way of changing this. Certainly not for outsiders and quite so even for Muslims themselves. As Grumenk Philalzabod0723 observed yesterday: The uncomfortable truth is that Islamic fundamentalism is incompatible with democracy because immodifiable Koranic scripture demands the establishment of a caliphate and the assassination of apostates. What logically follows is this: the only Muslims we can permit to live within our societies are not true Muslims, but some watered down inauthentic version. What we seek in "moderate" Muslims is, in reality, a non-Muslim. Islam's blasphemy laws and death penalty for apostasy have resulted in nearly a millennia of closed loop doctrinal cycling. Its intensely ossified nature precludes any hope of deviating from such a hidebound ideology. Centuries of Islam's clerical elite have cemented their personal power and authority by entrenching this thoroughly ingrown scripture. No better example exists than the near-constant bloodshed amongst Muslims over being "more Islamic than thou". The single issue of patrilineal descent from their prophet has fomented internecine slaughter for untold centuries. Their obsessive pursuit of religious purity attains the ridiculous with an entirely straight face. Witness the political suicide performed by hard line Iranian ex-president Khatami, solely by shaking hands with some strange women in Italy. Sgt. Mom speculated quite articulately about how Islam's brittleness could explain its intransigence and lack of introspection. As with other brittle objects like glass and ceramics, such adamant inflexiblity inhibits ready modification and external stress more often yields shattering results. This is indicated rather strongly in the case of Islam. Its recalcitrance and intolerance automatically presages catastrophic failure. Such an abrasive nature will either erode any opposition or crack against it trying. The only question of this outcome lies in the West's resolve to resist Islam's predations. If we are resolute in our opposition there is an almost intrinsic implication that Islam must rupture as a result. |
Posted by: Zenster 2007-07-02 09:50 |
#6 A Muslim cannot renounce violence as a means for furthering his religion without a corresponding ignorance or denial of his own creed. While it's not bloody likely to occur, it IS the case that new interpretations and rulings could be made. It's happened before in the history of Islam, sometimes peacefully and sometimes causing serious contention. |
Posted by: lotp 2007-07-02 09:41 |
#5 Hope his address isn't publicly available. |
Posted by: gromgoru 2007-07-02 09:31 |
#4 My plea to fellow Muslims: you must renounce terror... Humans are from Venus. jihadis are from Mars. |
Posted by: anymouse 2007-07-02 08:27 |
#3 Well I wish there were more like him, but I'm afraid he misses the central point. A Muslim cannot renounce violence as a means for furthering his religion without a corresponding ignorance or denial of his own creed. |
Posted by: mcsegeek1 2007-07-02 02:01 |
#2 Who wouldn't. He is a well meaning chap. Being a former terr insider, he can see the whole thing in a sharp focus, but also it skews his perception because his departure is not yet complete, reflected in his dream of reformation, which contrast with his recognition of the facts about inseparability of Islam and sharia. A handfull of other former terrs that got over their connection with Islam would probably agree with "fat chance", or a degree of it thereof. Of course, he sees the writing on the wall--that is why he uses the "must" in his plea, as it seems that it is not hard for him to figure out, extrapolate what would ensue if things continue to go the way they do at present. |
Posted by: twobyfour 2007-07-02 01:58 |
#1 My plea to fellow Muslims: you must renounce terror Fat fucking chance. Oh, how I'd love to be wrong. |
Posted by: Zenster 2007-07-02 01:24 |