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| Iraq | |
| Ugly details about the helicopter crash that killed five Americans | |
| 2007-01-25 | |
They did that to Blackwater security professionals? That strikes me as... unwise. A senior Iraqi military official said a machine gunner downed the helicopter, but a U.S. military official in Washington said there were no indications that the aircraft, owned by Blackwater USA, had been shot out of the sky. Two Sunni insurgent groups, separately, claimed responsibility for the crash. The helicopter Clear that neighborhood next. The doomed helicopter swooped into electrical wires before the crash. U.S. officials said it was not clear if gunfire brought the aircraft down or caused its pilot to veer into the wires during evasive manuevers. Another American official in Baghdad said three Blackwater helicopters were involved. One had landed for an unknown reason and one of the Blackwater employees was shot at that point, he said. That helicopter apparently was able to take off but a second one then crashed in the same area, he added without explaining the involvement of the third helicopter. The Iraqi official said the four were shot in the back of the head while they were on the ground. The crash occurred in an old neighborhood of narrow streets on the east bank of the Tigris River, north of the central city. Definitely. Clear that neighborhood next. The Qatar-based Al-Jazeera television said the 1920 Revolution Brigades insurgent group claimed responsibility for shooting down the helicopter and showed a video taken by a cell phone of a mass of still-smoldering twisted metal that it was said was the wreckage of the chopper. Another Sunni insurgent group, the Ansar al-Sunnah Army, also claimed responsibility and posted identity cards of men who were on the helicopter on a Web site, including at least two that bore the name of Arthur Laguna, who was later identified by his mother as among those killed. Laguna was a 52-year-old pilot for Blackwater who previously served in the Army and the California National Guard, his mother, Lydia Laguna, of Rio Linda, Calif., told the AP. She said she received a call from her other son, also a Blackwater pilot in Baghdad, notifying her of Arthur's death. A noble family. She did well rearing such sons to manhood. Witnesses in the Fadhil neighborhood told the AP that they saw the helicopter go down after gunmen on the ground opened fire. Accounts varied, but all were consistent that at least one person operating the aircraft had been shot and badly hurt before the crash. Blackwater USA provides security for State Department officials in Iraq, trains military units from around the world, and works for corporate clients. "These untimely deaths are a reminder of the extraordinary circumstances under which our professionals voluntarily serve to bring freedom and democracy to the Iraqi people," the Blackwater statement said. Indeed. Katy Helvenston, mother of Scott Helvenston, a Blackwater employee who died in March 2004 when a frenzied mob of insurgents ambushed a supply convoy they were escorting through Fallujah, said Tuesday's crash "just breaks my heart. I'm so sick of these kids dying," she said. Mr. Laguna was 52 years old. He wasn't a kid anymore. I hope he lived long enough to enjoy his grandchildren. Before Tuesday's crash, at least 22 employees of Blackwater Security Consulting or Blackwater USA had died in Iraq as a result of war related violence, according to the Web site iCasualties.org, which tracks foreign troop fatalities in Iraq. Although they no longer wore the American uniform, they were still serving, in my eyes. And while serving, they made the ultimate sacrifice to protect us all. The crash of the small surveillance helicopter, believed to be a version of the Hughes Defender that was developed during the Vietnam War, was the second associated with the U.S. war effort in Iraq in four days. A U.S. Army Black Hawk helicopter went down Saturday northeast of Baghdad, killing all 12 service members on board. The American military in Baghdad has refused to confirm a report by a Pentagon official that debris at the crash site indicated the helicopter was shot out of the air by a surface-to-air missile. If the regulars are too busy to get to it right away, let the Blackwater professionals clear those neighborhoods. Now. | |
| Posted by:trailing wife |
| #33 unlike a company I don't care to name Begins with an 'M'? |
| Posted by: Pappy 2007-01-25 21:00 |
| #32 Frank is smarter than I am, Jackel. He looks better in a Hawaiian shirt, too. Thank you for explaining. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2007-01-25 20:22 |
| #31 RUMINT has them pulling PSD for the PM and other higher end pols in IQ now, instead of his Shia clan, ao there may be more to this than meets the eye. Myabe not. But I've said enough. Those of you with the other puzzle pieces can see it from here. Ironic that this is how the world learns of those companies, as opposed to those of us who knew before. BW, solid pros - them and EODT are the only guys I'd ever consider plugging in with, if I werent so damn decrepit. Both of them only hire quality, no "Soldier of Fortune Magazine" nor Rambo-Hollywood sh*t (unlike a company I don't care to name, but Joe probably knows who Im talking about). These comapnies and thier operators know their stuff front back and sideways. Worth every damn dime they get paid, and then some. Kinda surprised to hear the news, sad for the losses. Rest in Peace - I'll see ya on Fiddler's Green some day, and we can tilt a bottle there. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2007-01-25 19:28 |
| #30 #19 FWIW, I think the same way as Mr. Laguna's mom. The 'kid' across my street will be 60 this year. |
| Posted by: GK 2007-01-25 16:49 |
| #29 Before I went out last time these guys came down and gave us a brief on IED detection and countermeasures. They were pretty good, all former spec ops/Marines/etc. They're just a hop/skip up the road from Lejeune. As w/any high speed unit you have your percentage of cowboys but overall I admired their professionalism, they certainly know the deal. Rest in Peace gents. |
| Posted by: Broadhead6 2007-01-25 11:37 |
| #28 I caught it, Jackal |
| Posted by: Frank G 2007-01-25 07:15 |
| #27 Strange. Blackwater ran a website from July 2002 to Nov. 2005, then stopped. Fortunately, it is archived on the Wayback website: http://web.archive.org/web/20051107204347re_/www.blackwaterusa.com/ |
| Posted by: Sneaze Shaiting3550 2007-01-25 05:22 |
| #26 Last I heard, Blackwater pays security staff $300 and up per day, and work them every day. And there are "hot zone" bonuses for protecting the Baghdad Airport to Green Zone and other routes. That kind of money would attract qualified ex-military. |
| Posted by: Sneaze Shaiting3550 2007-01-25 05:07 |
| #25 And yet another thread demonstrating how this site gets it right. If only the UofRantburg had been around in the late '80's, I wouldn't have had to suffer through 2 years at SF State. And yes, today just as in those days, to be Student Body President at SF State, you must be Palestinian. No exceptions that I'm aware of. |
| Posted by: Rex Mundi 2007-01-25 02:18 |
| #24 For those who didn't know, the last time some Blackwater employees were killed, that's what the Daily Kos said. |
| Posted by: Jackal 2007-01-25 01:35 |
| #23 OldSpook, They were the PSD for the convoy |
| Posted by: Joe of the Jungle 2007-01-24 23:59 |
| #22 Anyone know if they were on PSD when they got yanked into the firesack? |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2007-01-24 23:23 |
| #21 For what its worth, a friend in EODT relays the same tale as Joe. Supposedly the wire got them as they tried to evade, and the brave jihadis sprayed the wreckage as they ran away so they could claim the down bird. Good men, solid operators. They'll be missed. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2007-01-24 23:22 |
| #20 Nit accepted, USN, ret. I can be a little too literal, sometimes. Oh, and if Kos meant to make a joke, I apologize for lacking a sense of humour just now. If not, the order stands. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2007-01-24 23:05 |
| #19 TW; as always a very thoughtful commentary except for one small bone I wish to pick: While at 52, Mr. Laguna was not a kid to you or me maybe, to his Mother, or any other Blackwater-Family Mom, he was still a kid; their kid. Rest in Peace, Gentlemen. |
| Posted by: USN, ret. 2007-01-24 22:58 |
| #18 Go fuck yourself, Kos. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2007-01-24 22:58 |
| #17 Aw, screw 'em. They're nothing but mercenaries. |
| Posted by: Kos 2007-01-24 22:43 |
| #16 Thank you, Joe. I like your description of events much better. I learnt everything I know about Blackwater here at Rantburg, so I have a lot of respect for them. But I don't know enough about how soldiering happens to know why the story made me uncomfortable as well as angry. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2007-01-24 22:13 |
| #15 The gunshipÂ’s that came in to support launched at least one Hellfire down their throats. |
| Posted by: Joe of the Jungle 2007-01-24 22:03 |
| #14 Before mocking the dead, SpedcOp, give it some fucking thought. It's not the first time he's played armchair-general. It won't be the last. |
| Posted by: Pappy 2007-01-24 22:02 |
| #13 thx Joe - they died honorably, and for a purpose. Still, good reason to clear the neighborhood. Kill the attackers.... |
| Posted by: Frank G 2007-01-24 21:49 |
| #12 Thanks Joe. Like they say... first reports are notoriously wrong. |
| Posted by: TomAnon 2007-01-24 21:38 |
| #11 AP got the story wrong. The first bird took fire and the shooter on board was hit, mission was scrubbed and flew back to the Aid Station. Second bird stayed on station to support the retrograde of the convoy. While at the Aid Station shooter in the first bird died. They replaced 3 rotor blades and took back off to join up with the second bird. By this time all hell was braking loose and the military came in with supporting fire. The second bird that remained on station went down with all aboard KIA on impact. NO ONE WAS SHOT IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD. Their bodies were all recovered. These MEN were the finest, and served our Country well in a time of need. |
| Posted by: Joe of the Jungle 2007-01-24 21:26 |
| #10 Actually, now knowing we have B-1 Lancers in theater, it may be time to put 'em to use, Lone Ranger. While AC-130s make for good show, bombing the snot out of this neighborhood with the B-1 sounds better to me. |
| Posted by: BA 2007-01-24 20:34 |
| #9 Definitely. Clear that neighborhood next. Visions of a dozen AC-130's flying in a big racetrack circle above said neighborhood, raining thunder down on it until it is just a black smudge on the landscape. Followed by B-52's dropping pure salt ground penetrators. I wonder, just how many Spectres do we have in the force? |
| Posted by: Lone Ranger 2007-01-24 20:06 |
| #8 They are well equiped. Hire only the best, Night Stalkers, SF, Force Recon etc... Yhey're hire to fight when most won't. rest in peace. |
| Posted by: 49 Pan 2007-01-24 18:42 |
| #7 Once upon a time we actually tried to win wars too. |
| Posted by: DarthVader 2007-01-24 17:36 |
| #6 Once upon a time we would have cleared that neighborhood by B-52. |
| Posted by: Glenmore 2007-01-24 17:20 |
| #5 I have several friends who are Blackwater and are retired Force Recon Marines who have great situational awareness and know exactly what the are doing and are quite fucking professional. Before mocking the dead, SpedcOp, give it some fucking thought. |
| Posted by: Sgt. D.T. 2007-01-24 16:57 |
| #4 They were supposed to be guarding a convoy of VIP's ? Doesn't sound like that to me: "went down after responding to assist a U.S. Embassy ground convoy" Sounds like a call for "anyone in the area" went out, and they ran to the sound of the guns. |
| Posted by: Rob Crawford 2007-01-24 16:26 |
| #3 Americans down always sad, but thanks TW the details even sketchy ones are good to know. |
| Posted by: RD 2007-01-24 15:56 |
| #2 So when do we give up on the hearts-and-minds and go for the balls instead? Sure, reprisals make you unpopular if done half-heartedly. But with sufficient thoroughness the folks who are left will be grateful. |
| Posted by: Excalibur 2007-01-24 15:50 |
| #1 Apparently Blackwater pays well. It better. Their record is abysmal. They were supposed to be guarding a convoy of VIP's ? They don't seem to have any sort of situational awareness. Then, when they get in trouble, they can't hold their own in a firefight. I suppose US Army doesn't allow them to have any really good toys, but they will be swarmed every time with only pistols and light barreled auto rifles. |
| Posted by: SpecOp35 2007-01-24 15:39 |