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Down Under
Howard warns of lasting damage: Australian Muslims face backlash
2006-10-30
Prime Minister John Howard warned on Sunday comments by Australia’s top Islamic cleric about women and rape could do lasting damage to the Muslim community’s relations with the rest of the nation. Howard was speaking against a background of spiralling protest and anger over the cleric’s description of immodestly dressed women without an Islamic headscarf as “uncovered meat” inviting sexual attack.

Riot squad officers were among a strong police force dispatched to a major Islamic festival to mark the end of Ramazan in Sydney on Sunday, reported the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. The cleric, the Mufti of Australia Sheikh Taj Aldin Al-Hilali, cancelled his planned appearance at the festival in the wake of the uproar over his remarks.

Howard said he did not have the power to sack the mufti, but called on Islamic leaders to deal with him.
Howard said he did not have the power to sack the mufti, but called on Islamic leaders to deal with him. “The responsibility to resolve this matter sensibly rests with the Islamic community,” said Howard. He urged the Islamic community “to resolve this matter in a way that promotes the interests of harmony and the view Islamic Australians are fully integrated into Australian society”. “If this matter is not properly handled by the Islamic community, I am concerned that their failure to do so will do lasting damage to the perceptions of that community within the Australian community,” said Howard.
Posted by:Fred

#21  Wow, Zen, you're hittin' on all cylinders today. Your summation in # 16 is a brilliant critique of where we stand vs. the Death Cult today. I can't improve on it, but do want to acknowledge it.
Posted by: SpecOp35   2006-10-30 17:16  

#20  Somehow, there needs to be a groundswell in American public opinion which makes clear to all of our elected officials that complacency in the face of continued terrorist threats is equivalent to treason. More blue sky thinking, I know. I'm just hoping to hit upon the right combination of thoughts and words that provides an unambiguous message which is able to be carried forward by the American people in general.
Posted by: Zenster   2006-10-30 16:28  

#19  Zenster's approach is the correct one. There is no way that islam is going to undergo reformation without significant external incentive to do so. But wxjames is also correct in saying that the "incentives" are not going to be applied until we are hit again in a significant way.
Posted by: remoteman   2006-10-30 15:54  

#18  Love it, Zenster, but no western leader is going to skate that close to the abiss. They will be content to wait for yet another 911 and then maybe retaliate extra proportionate and start the ball rolling for Islamic change. Howard will focus on this jerk, and they will avoid him and Oz but not even slow down in France, Nigeria Somalia, or Thailand.
Posted by: wxjames   2006-10-30 13:13  

#17  A slight correction:

What this points towards is that, no matter what CURRENT FORM OF disincentives and punitive measures we put in place or inflict, none of this will forestall them from perpetrating a final and utterly horrendous atrocity that will simply leave all rational minds gaping at the prospect of such absolute barbarity.

I still believe that there may be certain deterrents the Western world could put in place that would significantly alter Islam's jihadist ambitions. Among these are:

1.) Threatening demolition of successive Islamic shrines in the wake of further atrocities.

2.) Physically taking the various Islamic shrines hostage and making the halt of jihad or reformation of Islam a condition of further access.

3.) A promise of overall nuclear destruction of the entire MME (Muslim Middle East) for even a single attack with atomic weapons.

I do not promise that these are foolproof solutions but, instead, offer them as necessary starting points for discussion on what would constitute some sort of functional deterrent to further jihadist atrocities.
Posted by: Zenster   2006-10-30 12:59  

#16  I suspect that Muslim strength is like that of an ice cube. Apply the right sort of pressure and it shatters, revealing the significant friability inherent in the structure of the material.

From a fellow wordsmith, please allow me to say how that is some very tasty writing, as with your entire post, trailing wife.

Your reply has a lot of merit to it, but I feel as though it does not address the simple fact that Islam's one signal attribute is that of overreaching itself. They have always done this and will continue to until physically prevented from doing so. What this points towards is that, no matter what disincentives and punitive measures we put in place or inflict, none of this will forestall them from perpetrating a final and utterly horrendous atrocity that will simply leave all rational minds gaping at the prospect of such absolute barbarity.

This is not speculation, it is a given. Every single word, act and tradition of Islam all point towards this. I do agree with you in respect to how discrediting Muslim leadership will go, at least, some way towards curing the problem. We might differ in how that discrediting should be done, I prefer a .45 calibre style of discrediting, but it must proceed apace.

Where I disagree with you is in exactly the same point that Planet Dan was making.

So he's replaced. Big deal. The issue is not that THIS a-hole said what he did, it's that most muslims believe - and act on - that, and other crap.

I think we have finally begun to get a much more clear picture as to how subversive the so-called "moderate" Muslim community actually is. The vicious and hateful doctrine being spewed by these putative moderates is more than sufficient to drive all the harmful aspects of jihad, without any fueling by the extremists.

I am increasingly convinced, as are otheres here at Rantburg, that what we call "moderate" Muslims all too often are just biding their time, whilst clandestinely abetting jihad, and awaiting some greater outcome that will permit them more overt behavior without due consequence.

I believe that this is part of Planet Dan's point and one that is well made. Well enough that al-Halali should be removed from his station as Mufti of New Zealand and Australia, but this in no way counteracts the antipodean ummah's fundamental orientation. They still hold these beliefs and merely await a more apt moment to manifest them at large. In light of that, removing their figurehead represents only a minimal threat reduction. A necessary move? Yes, by all means. An actual solution to the problem? Hardly.

This is why I continue to advocate summary execution for the worldwide community of jihadist clergy. When there is an obvious and swift death penalty for agitating in favor of jihad, only then will these so-called "moderate" Muslims truly begin to rethink their position. Without such consequences there is little if any incentive to alter what they see as an unpunished and winning strategy of silent but immutable progress towards world domination.
Posted by: Zenster   2006-10-30 12:47  

#15  "I suspect that Muslim strength is like that of an ice cube. Apply the right sort of pressure and it shatters, revealing the significant friability inherent in the structure of the material."

I think so too. A house of cards. It's the same of all religions that focus on nothing more than a set of external requirements rather than on true internal spirituality. It's been said most eloquently as "Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but don't consider the beam that is in your own eye?"

Posted by: mcsegeek1   2006-10-30 12:40  

#14  Credit where due - Howard's done more bitch-slapping of the idiocy than all the rest combined.
Posted by: .com   2006-10-30 09:57  

#13  "“The responsibility to resolve this matter sensibly rests with the Islamic community,” said Howard."

That's the usual PC speak. The islamic community composes of submissive zombies and/or jihadists wrt their shrieking sheikhs and nutcase mullahs.

It can solve nothing short of apostating en masse.
Posted by: Duh!   2006-10-30 09:50  

#12  Agreed, Verlaine, ed - on all points. BTW, welcome back, V-man! I'm kinda hoping we can work out a trade agreement with the Ozzies to borrow Howard for 2008-2012...
Posted by: .com   2006-10-30 09:37  

#11  A nice comfortable retirement will be a travesty. He and his kind deserve nothing better than to be deported to a deep and dark Egyptian prison.
Posted by: ed   2006-10-30 09:28  

#10  Allan struck him down. 'Nuff said.
Posted by: Seafarious   2006-10-30 09:24  

#9  A medical retirement would be good enough. These birds are all about personal power, and it doesn't matter to them how they lose it, just that they lose it.

Whoever replaces him will be considerably cooler, caring more for the power than for sticking his neck out.
Posted by: Anonymoose   2006-10-30 08:31  

#8  On the macro level that's true, PlanetDan. However, it's important that there be personal consequences for this kind of inciting speech and the follow-on behaviour. No matter how big they talk, Islam remains a religion that proves its truth only by conquest and conversion. Every demonstration that it does not have the strong hand sows doubt in the mind of those whose belief is fragile, as it must be to the heirs of those who bowed when the sword was held to their throats. We will have won, not when all the followers of Mohammed are killed even to the babes in arms, but when enough of the vicious mouthy idiots have been painfully punished for trying to set themselves, unearned, at the top of Creation, that the rest decide discretion is the better part of valour and choose to live quietly in the hope of excaping our notice and the pain that would follow.

For such as Mufti of Australia Sheikh Taj Aldin Al-Hilali, simple expulsion to the dusty, dung-laden streets of wherever he slithered out from will do. Who now pays attention to the ravings of the whateverhewas who demanded to be rescued from the bombardment in Beirut? The one from London whose son was caught with a cash-filled envelope labelled "Daddy"? For those who take up arms, the receiving end of a bullet or a missile is necessary... but that's already happening. It's clear that the caliber of jihadi has fallen drastically since 2002-3 in Afghanistan and Iraq. We are well inside their training cycle, whether of Number 3s, bomb-makers, or even cannon fodder; it would take them a generation of peaceful endeavor to replace the knowledge acquired by those captured and killed in the first year of Coalition effort, and they aren't going to be given it. The Afghanis have recently been quoting captured "Taliban" to the effect that they were lied to in the madrassas, thrown over the border with inadequate training and supplies, and little support from the locals. We are also getting reports from Rantburgers recently returned, that the situation on the ground is much more positive than even the news accounts posted here.

I trust the likes of Shieldwolf, Verlaine and Atomic Conspiracy, and give their statements a lot of weight, which is why I've become more sanguine about the currenty situation and the progress of the War on Terror/Islamofascism/Jihadism/whatever. Europe is actually starting to fight its internal war, however ineptly it appears, which means that -- win or lose -- the Muslim colonists will be preoccupied there and will not be able to turn their attention elsewhere for a while. Stateside at least half the voting population is aware of and concerned about Muslim ambition... and their only hope of taking the US was to keep us unaware.

I suspect that Muslim strength is like that of an ice cube. Apply the right sort of pressure and it shatters, revealing the significant friability inherent in the structure of the material.
Posted by: trailing wife   2006-10-30 08:01  

#7  I hear ya Verlaine. I'd love to hear this kind of talk also.

I had hopes for Condi, but she has proved to be a disappointment. If she's a team player, then BUSH has proved to be a disappointment.
Posted by: Ptah   2006-10-30 06:53  

#6  So he's replaced. Big deal. The issue is not that THIS a-hole said what he did, it's that most muslims believe - and act on - that, and other crap.
Posted by: PlanetDan   2006-10-30 06:50  

#5  Howard and other senior Aussie politicians (such as Downer) just keep getting better and better. We're doing OK ourselves (despite the bizarre tantrum apparently taking place within the electorate), but oh to have such straight-talk from American leadership ......
Posted by: Verlaine   2006-10-30 06:19  

#4  if they Muslim community doesn't sack him, simply letting him walk away under some false medical pretense is not enough. It will leave his words unchallenged.

I think Howard has handled this brilliantly so far. He's insisting the Muslim community take responsibility. If the Muslim community allows him to exit without shame, then I think Howard should charge him with treason for his words re: the troops and strip him of his citizenship.
Posted by: Clkethel OHlkdj   2006-10-30 05:26  

#3  If he's replaced, he'll be replaced by a Saudi or Yemeni.
Posted by: Robert Crawford   2006-10-30 05:24  

#2  Al-Halali's collapse at Lakemba mosque all may be part of a face-saving exit strategy for this vile maggot. Should this asshole step down with no further measures taken against him, he still needs to have his citizenship revoked. His preaching has shown itself to have exceptionally negative influence over Australian Muslims. Permitting al-Hilali to remain within the antipodean ummah would only allow more wannabe jihadists to be infected by his bilious spewing. Connecting his hideous debasement of Australian women as "uncovered meat", with the series of outrageous gang rapes and the Cronulla race riots is something a blind man could do.

Australian Muslims must resolutely reject all further presence of this contentious and violent individual and thereby approve that their government slingshot this twisted little puppy back to his native Egyptian hell hole Islamic utopia.
Posted by: Zenster   2006-10-30 04:19  

#1  [ Crickets ]
Posted by: gorb   2006-10-30 03:49  

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