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Europe
Europe Is Growing Skeptical Of Dialogue With Muslims
2006-10-06
After years of dithering over political correctness with Muslims and Islam, Europe is waking up to a different morning.

A three-week tour of Italy, France, and Britain last month was enough for me to conclude that Western Europeans have moved way beyond dialogue. Confrontation, indeed even provocation, is their preferred approach to the Muslims in their midst.

Long before Pope Benedict XVI's scathing comments in mid-September on the fallacy of phony Muslim-Christian dialogue, signs of hardening European views toward current Islamic values were plentiful on the Continent.

It was telling, for example, to see how Europeans greeted the naïve commentary that surfaced in America's National Intelligence Estimate, titled "Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States." The NIE told bemused Europeans, among other things, that "greater pluralism and more responsive political systems in Muslim majority nations would alleviate some of the grievances jihadists exploit."

Situated closer than America to that rough neighborhood called the Middle East, Europeans reacted by noting that the chances for "greater pluralism" in any Muslim country are about as plausible as hell freezing over.

Should the region's despotic regimes be toppled, a number of press outlets observed, their successors would be even nastier murderers. Possibilities include the saber-wielding soldiers of the Muslim Brotherhood and its tributaries — Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, and the Algerian Armed Islamic Group, among others — men who believe in carrying out ritual killings of their fellow Muslims even before the slaughter of infidels.

The common view in Europe is that pseudo-secularist tyrants in Muslim lands like Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan, Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, and King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia share the same aspirations to dominate, wage war, and rule as Osama bin Laden, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, and Ayman al-Zawahiri of Al Qaeda.

A more relevant passage in the NIE reads: "Jihadists regard Europe as an important venue for attacking Western interests. Extremist networks inside the extensive Muslim diaspora in Europe facilitate recruitment and staging for urban attacks, as illustrated by the 2004 Madrid and 2005 London bombings."

Indeed, what can one say about Britain's Muslims, when 10% of those polled after the August airliner plot said they would be "willing" to wage suicide attacks against their fellow Britons, and another 70% refused to condemn that view?

Europeans now see a need not to massage the Muslim ethos but to remove it. One can talk forever of the necessity for Islam to reform itself, but that fails to resonate within Muslim societies, Europeans tell me.

My European tour made it eminently clear that Western Europeans — if not their more liberal, compromised ruling and business elites — believe that for Muslims living in the West, it's either Western ways or the highway.

Harsh, maybe, but that is how it stands.

When the Italian journalist Oriana Fallaci died in September, newspapers across Europe celebrated her for her journalistic exploits with the likes of Ayatollah Khomeini and Henry Kissinger. But above all, they celebrated her for her fierce, uncompromising, "rejectionist" book about Islam in Europe, "The Rage and the Pride," which called for nothing less than the expulsion of Muslims who insist on separate societies.

Shortly before and after the pope's pointed remarks on Islam — in which he added to his earlier statements that Turkey's 70 million Muslims have no place in "Christian Europe" — there were numerous other mini-explosions. They included Dutch revulsion over the ritual Muslim killing of the movie director Theo van Gogh; the Danish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad; and, most recently, a September 19 article in Le Figaro by the French philosopher and schoolteacher Robert Redeker that made the case that Muslims are bent on muzzling Europe's democratic values.

Europe is no longer dithering. Every other week, parliaments are restricting the freedom of expression of Muslim fundamentalists, preachers, and madrassas, and questioning every value that militant Islam has attempted to sneak into the Continent over the past 20 years.

The dialogue is over. The time for action is closing in.

Posted by:GolfBravoUSMC

#16  .com, if you liked this thread, you'll loooove this one:

UK: Boy snatched off street, set alight and murdered for being white
Posted by: Zenster   2006-10-06 22:32  

#15  C'mon, we all know dialog rulez, deeds are so low-brow, RC.
Posted by: .com   2006-10-06 20:50  

#14  Many muslims in Europe, AFAICT, want to see the fundamentalists thrown out.

You can tell by how hard they work to accomplish it.

Been sniffing glue again, LH?
Posted by: Robert Crawford   2006-10-06 20:46  

#13  That's not what the European press or the European elites are saying. Don't know who the author was talking to, but it wasn't anyone with either power or a media soapbox in Europe. The elites are either spewing political correctness or trying to negotiate surrender.
Posted by: DMFD   2006-10-06 20:03  

#12  Spot on, Crusader.
Posted by: Zenster   2006-10-06 17:41  

#11  Many muslims in Europe, AFAICT, want to see the fundamentalists thrown out.


Just don't ask them so say so publically.

Or to criticize the actions of the fundamentalists.

Or to defend the rights of others to worship as they please.

Or to stand up for a free press.

Or to decry acts of violence.

Or to put any kind of meaningful action behind their wishes.

But other than that, I'm sure you're right--"they want to see the fundamentalists thrown out."
Posted by: Crusader   2006-10-06 17:08  

#10  WTF? Hosni just wants to protect his rule in Egypt. Anything else is just cover for that. This is nonsense.
liberalhawk, would you be interested in buying some interest in the Brooklyn bridge?
Posted by: gromgoru   2006-10-06 17:07  

#9  The dialogue is over. The time for action is closing in.

This article is interesting. He doesn't say that he AGREES with Europe's response. In fact, one could read this article with a view that the European response is the target of his "time for action."
Posted by: PlanetDan   2006-10-06 15:11  

#8  none of which is contradictory to dialogue with the rest of the muslim world.

liberalhawk, just the fact of how you believe that "dialogue with the rest of the Muslim world" will accomplish anything at all indicates an IV drip of Kool-Aid somewhere. After all, just look at how Pope Benedict's attempt at "dialogue" has gone so very well. His efforts have earned him exactly how many death threats?

Islam has only one use for "dialogue". They call it "hudna". Look at Iran. Look at the Palestinians. Now look at the massive support throughout the Muslim world for both of these intolerable situations and how the Iranians and Palestinians employ every single kind of deceit imaginable to attain their ends. This is not just clerical or doctrinal support, it is grass-roots, ground-swell support at the individual level. Support for the way Iran and the Palestinians employ terrorism, threats, lies, deception, disinformation and every other moral and ethical sleight-of-hand they can come up with. Islamic "dialogue" is hudna and nothing else.

Many muslims in Europe, AFAICT, want to see the fundamentalists thrown out.

Then why do they continue to attend the Saudi financed mosques with their Saudi financed wahabbist cleric who so routinely preach "death to America" and "death to the kuffar"? Why are they not regularly boycotting these fountains of hate speech and denouncing the cleris who spew it? Why didn't they take to the streets waving the usual vomit of hateful cartoons shit out in fistfuls by the Saudi and Arab daily press when Denmark was being condemned and threatened? You come across as delusional. Your post over in the thread about Kriss Donald's murder goes a long way towards proving it.
Posted by: Zenster   2006-10-06 15:01  

#7  "Every other week, parliaments are restricting the freedom of expression of Muslim fundamentalists, preachers, and madrassas, and questioning every value that militant Islam has attempted to sneak into the Continent over the past 20 years."

none of which is contradictory to dialogue with the rest of the muslim world. Many muslims in Europe, AFAICT, want to see the fundamentalists thrown out.
Posted by: liberalhawk   2006-10-06 13:17  

#6  It would be awfully helpful if the author is correct.
Posted by: trailing wife   2006-10-06 13:10  

#5  Hmmm. A tiny glimmer of light in the dark night, or unadulterated BS? Time will tell indeed.
Posted by: mcsegeek1   2006-10-06 13:10  

#4  "Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, and King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia share the same aspirations to dominate, wage war,"

WTF? Hosni just wants to protect his rule in Egypt. Anything else is just cover for that. This is nonsense.
Posted by: liberalhawk   2006-10-06 13:09  

#3  Cheapest solution is to provide all of the muzzies a government subsidised, free ticket to the rat hole of their origin.
Posted by: anymouse   2006-10-06 12:58  

#2  Time will tell.
Posted by: Evil Elvis   2006-10-06 12:58  

#1  "My European tour made it eminently clear that Western Europeans — if not their more liberal, compromised ruling and business elites — believe that for Muslims living in the West, it's either Western ways or the highway."

That's why I call the EU a coup process.
Posted by: Bright Pebbles in Blairistan   2006-10-06 12:34  

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