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| Europeans | |||
| 2006-08-21 | |||
| Via LFG. (Article labeled "Times Select"; posted in its entirety since the link may not last. The shaky, United Nations-brokered cease-fire in Lebanon suffered another blow on Sunday when the European countries that had been called upon to provide the backbone of a peacekeeping force delayed a decision on committing troops until the mission is more clearly defined. "Weasel One to Weasel Two - how are we gonna get out of this sh*t?" Their reservations postponed any action on the force at least until Wednesday, when the European Union will take up the issue. Haunted by their experiences in Bosnia in the 1990Â’s, when their forces were unable to stop widespread ethnic killing, European governments are insisting upon clarifying the chain of command and rules of engagement before plunging into the even greater complexities of the Middle East.
In addition, a senior French official said, "Italy, Spain and Finland have raised the same questions as France has." Following the usual diplomatic practice, the official asked not to be identified. A spokesman for the Spanish Foreign Ministry said Spain was willing to send troops, "but the rules have to be clarified and agreed on." "And the number one rule is nobody is supposed to shoot at us - just at the Jews." Some countries, like Australia, which has placed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, have refused to commit troops. "We have no intention of making any significant contribution," said a senior Australian government official, who was not authorized to speak publicly on the matter. "We don’t have any confidence in it. It is not going to have the mandate to disarm Hezbollah." Gotta love the plain-spoken Aussies! They know a bad joke when they see it. The confusion over the peacekeeping force, coming just a day after an Israeli commando raid, added to fears that the cease-fire could easily break down. What cease-fire? You mean the unilateral Israeli withdrawal? 'Cuz the Lebanese and the Hezzies (but I repeat myself) sure haven't done anything they supposedly agreed to do. "Unfortunately, there is a tilting edge where things very easily, within the next weeks or months, can slide out of control," a top United Nations envoy, Terje Roed-Larsen, said at a news conference in Beirut on Sunday, after two days of meetings with Lebanese officials. Finland, which holds the rotating presidency of the European Union, scheduled the Wednesday meeting in Brussels, where diplomatic and military experts were expected to address questions that they believed have still not been properly answered. "We need to know what are the material and legal means at our disposal," the French defense minister, Michèle Alliot-Marie, said Friday. "You can’t send in men and tell them: Observe what is going on, but you don’t have the right to defend yourself or shoot." And why not? That's what the UN always does. See UNFIL, dead Canadians.
Gee, I wonder why that would be? Maybe because those countries would help the Hezzies? Malaysia, Indonesia and Bangladesh are among the countries that have offered frontline troops but Mr. Olmert spoke by telephone with Prime Minister Romano Prodi of Italy and called on Italy to take a leading role in the international force, according to a statement released by Mr. Olmert’s office. Italy has offered to send up to 3,000 troops while France, which helped broker the cease-fire, has so far refused to commit more than 200. And is anybody with two functioning brain cells surprised at this? Phrance wants to pretend they're important, not actually do anything important. And they definitely don't want to upset the Arabs, their favorite While the troubled peacekeeping force dominated discussion in Europe, repercussions from a commando raid in Lebanon on Saturday night were still being felt in Israel. Why? Because the Israelis were surprised Olmert found his balls for a few minutes? Israeli officials defended the risky nighttime operation, which they said was aimed at stopping the smuggling of weapons to Hezbollah and was fully justified, since the United Nations truce calls for an end to the rearming of the militant group. Officials hinted that the Israeli military would act again if it suspected new weapons were flowing to Hezbollah. "The resolution has very clear directives on limiting the transfer of weapons from Syria and Iran into Lebanon," said Isaac Herzog, the tourism minister and a member of Israel’s security cabinet. "The directives speak of a full embargo. As long as it is not enforced, we have the full right to act against it." Preach it, brother! (Someday someone needs to explain to me why their tourism minister is the one delivering this message, instead of, say, their defense minister. Just a thought.) Israel gave few details about the raid, and speculation abounded in the Israeli news media that the commandos were trying to free the two Israeli soldiers whose capture started the conflict, or to kill a Hezbollah leader. One such official, Sheik Muhammad Yazbeck, lives in the area where the operation took place. In Lebanon, Prime Minister Fouad Siniora, touring the ruins on the Shiite southern edge of the capital, where apartment buildings were flattened for blocks, called the Israel bombing raids "a crime against Methinks he doth protest too much. Mealsothinks he's projecting his own hatred of Israel. The Lebanese defense minister, Elias Murr, who on Saturday threatened to halt the deployment of Lebanese troops to the south if Israel carried out any more raids, warned Sunday that anyone who fired rockets toward Israel from southern Lebanon would be treated as a "traitor" for giving the Israelis an excuse to resume hostilities. The warning appeared to be directed not toward Hezbollah, which he said had pledged to honor the cease-fire, ... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ... but to their Who gives a rat's ass about "international resolutions" intended to destroy the Jooooooos? While the Israeli military is normally quick to publicize its successes — sometimes even providing videos of the raids through eerie green night-vision lenses — scant details of the commando raid near the Hezbollah stronghold of Baalbek were disclosed. Hmmmmm. Must have gotten what/who they wanted. An official statement released by the army said, "The goals of the operation were achieved in full" Heh.™ But in the Lebanese village of Boudai, residents gave graphic accounts yesterday of a commando force, wearing Lebanese Army uniforms and shouting in Arabic, that was chased down by local guerrillas and forced to evacuate by helicopter. Ah, yes, the Lions of Islam™ standard lie: "victorious" again - in their own minds. The commandos were from the Sayeret Matkal, the Israeli news media reported, the country’s most elite, legendary and secretive unit, one that carried out, among other operations, the famous Entebbe raid to free hostages held on an airliner. Lt. Col. Emanuel Morano, who was apparently the leader of the force, put at about 100 men by the Israeli news media, was killed and another officer and a soldier were wounded.
In an analysis in the newspaper Yediot Aharonot, Alex Fishman wrote that Hezbollah had been using advanced Soviet-made antitank weapons. More than 10 days ago, he wrote, a legal opinion was written by lawyers reviewing the United Nations-backed cease-fire agreement "stipulating unequivocally" that attacks on Hezbollah weaponry would be classified as "an act of defense." Yeah, but those are just words - Joooooos are not supposed to take them seriously! Whatever the purpose of the raid, most agreed it never would have been disclosed if the commandos had not run into serious difficulties. "Nobody was supposed to hear about the secret operation two days ago deep inside Lebanon, one of the secret operations the public is not told about," the newspaper Maarivsaid. But, the paper added, "the mission got in trouble on the way." The daily Haaretz quoted an unidentified military source as saying, "We were really lucky the operation did not end with 10 commandos killed." Jeez, you'd think at least the Israeli MSM would be a little different from the NYT, et al. Some commentators described the raid as another black mark for the Israeli military, already under severe criticism for its conduct of the Lebanon war. Writing in Yediot Aharonot, Amir Rappaport said, "The operation was intended to be absolutely secret and the mere fact that it was revealed and even claimed casualties is proof of its failure." "The skirmish between the commando troops and the Hezbollah fighters, which was not planned, also displays Israel to the world as though it violated the U.N. resolution. Absurdly enough, the mission that ran into trouble was also intended to allow Israel to provide proof later on that Syria, Hezbollah and Iran were not honoring the agreement." For what? Everybody knows they've no intention of honoring the agreement. And any proof Israel would provide would be ignored anyway. European hesitation over committing troops to the peacekeeping force is to some extent rooted in bitter memories of the ContinentÂ’s experiences in Bosnia, where foreign troops were not only unable to prevent large-scale ethnic killing but were themselves held hostage at times by the warring parties. Some of the peacekeepersÂ’ ineffectiveness was attributed to unclear rules of engagement and to conflicting chains of command between national defense ministries and the United Nations. Face it, guys. Anything labeled "U.N." is doomed to failure - it's built in, just like their penchant for five-star resorts and raping refugee But some critics say the delay may indicate that military chiefs of staff are at odds with their diplomats who helped write the peacekeeping resolution and planning documents. Ya' think? The United Nations has said it is looking for at least 3,500 troops to arrive by Sept. 2. So far France has promised 200 soldiers. Fifty military engineers landed in Lebanon this weekend and the rest are to arrive later this week. But FranceÂ’s initial contribution has fallen far short of the 2,500 to 4,000 soldiers that it had been expected to offer. France had also been expected to assume leadership of the entire international force, which was intended to number about 15,000 troops and would join 15,000 Lebanese Army troops in patrolling southern Lebanon. Who was the idiot who believed this would ever happen - and how drunk was he? Meeting in Cairo on Sunday, Arab foreign ministers expressed their "readiness" to contribute to the reconstruction of Lebanon. Ready, maybe. Willing? Better print some more of those counterfeit hundred dollar bills, Lebanon, 'cuz the oil ticks ain't gonna thrown their money down the Hezzie rat hole just to see it bulldozed by the IDF in the second round. "The United Arab Emirates will rebuild the schools and hospitals in southern Lebanon and help remove landmines, Qatar will rebuild the town of Bint Jbail, and Kuwait will set aside $800 million," said Hesham Youssef, adviser to the secretary general of the Arab League. "This is in addition to the $500 million already promised by Saudi Arabia for reconstruction efforts." And a pony! Pfui. | |||
| Posted by:Barbara Skolaut |
| #30 Your attention, please. Paging Mel Brooks. The script has been located for "The Producers II: The Sequel" |
| Posted by: Zenster 2006-08-21 22:47 |
| #29 We'd like to help, but the reduction of Madison has to come first. |
| Posted by: Task Force Dothan 2006-08-21 17:35 |
| #28 We were living in Germany then, and my Serbian neighbor was very certain that the Europeans would completely cock up the intervention, that only America could fix the situation for them. Equally, a Croatian au pair told us that her parents refused to allow her to come home during the siege and destruction of Split, which Europe watched without intervening. As I recall, the reason Croatia seceded was because Germany made loud noises of support for their traditional allies while everybody was posturing beforehand; had the noises been in the other direction, the split likely would not have happened. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2006-08-21 16:16 |
| #27 Loved the comments, Barbara. thanks |
| Posted by: ex-lib 2006-08-21 15:31 |
| #26 " . . . the Bosniacs sort of remind me of the European version of the Palestinians." Yeah. They went around destroying centuries-old Orthodox churches and cemeteries as the UN and other "peacekeeping" "forces" stood by and watched. see here |
| Posted by: ex-lib 2006-08-21 15:30 |
| #25 lets not start on ex Yugo - again - I will only say Steve, that you are not as far wrong as some commentators indicate. Back to topic - its not unreasonable, per se, for the French to back off on troops - they ARE in the Balkans and Ivory Coast in a big way, and IIUC there are some in Afghanistan as well (though not on the front lines like the brits, Canadians, and Dutch) So they MAY be suffereing a bit of overstretch. BUT - the role they took in the end of war diplomacy implied that they WERE ready to go into Lebanon in a big way. Backing out now really does make them look stupid and weak, after a couple of years of fairly deft diplomacy. It now looks like Italy may lead the force - this represents, I suspect, a real weakening of French prestige in Lebanon, including with their former friends the Maronites - the Maronites needed them to be there, and theyre not. It also gives Olmert an opening for all kinds of quibbling (including the recent raid into Beqaa) and that again creates problems for France in the arab world. I dont think this lets Olmert wriggle off the hook for his mistakes, but in some ways it helps him. |
| Posted by: liberalhawk 2006-08-21 15:25 |
| #24 Thanks for the corrections and insights to what I wrote. |
| Posted by: Steve White 2006-08-21 15:00 |
| #23 Overall, an area not worth the bones of a New Jersery Guardsman, but a lot of fine Americans do hail from all parts there. Sort of interesting the magic America has had on people who can come here and intermarry before the folks in the old country stop shooting at eachother. |
| Posted by: Nimble Spemble 2006-08-21 12:51 |
| #22 Steve, that was a Dutch officer that was handcuffed to a tree. The bombing thing made little sense at the time and I was involved in that part of it. We also identified "mass" graves sites but for some reason the numbers didn't add up to the 10 of thousands that the Bosnians claimed. No I am not a fan of the Serbs but the Bosniacs sort of remind me of the European version of the Palestinians. The Croats are just a step above the Serbs but they were equally brutal to any Bosniac that didn't tow the line. During the Croatian offensive “Storm” some Bosnians POWs had Serb guards one day and Croatians the next. The treatment didn’t get much better for them either. When we (U.S.) put boots on the ground the Serbs, Croats, and Bosnians all started to play nice. That is also when a lot of Bosnians (Muslim fanatics) started taking some retribution for their treatment by the Serbs/Croats. |
| Posted by: Cyber Sarge 2006-08-21 12:37 |
| #21 And, don't forget what triggered that overall war: Croatia seceeded from Yugoslavia and was immediately recognized by Germany. The loudest voices in Croatia for the move were people associated with the Nazis in WWII. Did that let the Serb nationalists rally Serbs in response? You bet it did. |
| Posted by: lotp 2006-08-21 12:28 |
| #20 what you want about Billy Jeff, he at least had gotten the message from Rwanda (genocide results when no one does anything about it) Except that the Rwandan genocide happenned after most of the vents in Bosnia. And that Americans were manipulated into believing that the Serbs were all evil and Muslims all candid doves. They should have taken a loook at the looong historian of Serb massacres perpetrated by Muslims (the later while allied with the Nazis), they should have investigated Izbetjekovic biography (he was a member of the Hanshar SS division whose atrocities apalled the "normal" SS themselves), they should have looked at Izbetjekovic proipaganda (islamic horsemen trampling serbs) and his statements about Isalmic societies not being mixable with non-Islamic ones. I al not saying that the Serbs were right in the way they conducted the war butr they have every right not want to remain in the same state that people who elect a former SS and an actual islamo-fascist. |
| Posted by: JFM 2006-08-21 12:21 |
| #19 We sat in Macedonia waiting and watching, you are right. I do remember the French going in and Serbs taking the Dutch Brigade captive and all their equipment while Europe, and the US, watched. I was part of the task force in Europe that was supposed to go get the Dutch but our prez called it off. I believe we should have gone in sooner rather than after the genocide was over. The thing that sets us up different from the French is the ROE. It sounds as if they are waiting the UN to define it for them, always a bad call. When we go we damn near publish it to the locals and the enemy, clearly defining the rules we will stand by. It gives our soldiers the teeth necessary to stay safe and not wind up hand cuffed to a tree or smoking a “last” cigarette with Milosavitch. This makes Steve right again when he talks about Europe political lack of will. |
| Posted by: 49 Pan 2006-08-21 12:18 |
| #18 This hideous joke called UN needs to be ended today. I do not want one additional penny of US tax monies going to this shithole. In addition, I want them off US territory immediately. Just observing any of their actions makes me want to puke. |
| Posted by: SOP35/Rat 2006-08-21 11:29 |
| #17 we landed on the Serbs with both feet. Both wings, perhaps, but not both feet. Personally I wasn't too enthusiastic about that terror bombing then, and I've not heard much to make me any more enthusiastic in the meantime. We should have stayed out and let the Euros stew in their own juices. |
| Posted by: Nimble Spemble 2006-08-21 11:19 |
| #16 49Pan, part of the French experience in Bosnia was that (if you'll recall) the Euros had a 'peacekeeping' force in Bosnia well before America and 'NATO' intervened. It was completely ineffective. The Dutch allowed the massacre at Srebrenica, and the French force was humiliated by Serb paramilitary units on a number of occasions. If my recollection is correct, there was one situation in which the Serbs handcuffed a French junior officer to a tree when he tried to intervene to stop a village from being hit. I think the French tried to blame all this on 'unclear rules of engagement', when in fact the French politicans, like the Dutch, German, etc, weren't willing to face the situation and acknowledge that it would take some bloodshed to enforce a peace in Bosnia. Say what you want about Billy Jeff, he at least had gotten the message from Rwanda (genocide results when no one does anything about it) and wasn't about to let that happen in Bosnia. So when we intervened, we landed on the Serbs with both feet. It's clear that the French politicans, all of them, didn't get the message. There's still in the mindset that says they want to talk big, be the big cat but not risk anything. Part of that comes from the fact that while French soldiers and officers are good, the French army is not: it lacks equipment, doctrine and numbers to be an effective expeditionary force. But a big part of it is the lack of moral fiber in the French politicans, and a large number of the French people. Lacking a clear sense of right and wrong in these matters, it becomes easy to waffle. |
| Posted by: Steve White 2006-08-21 11:13 |
| #15 So what wel will end up here is a un force that basically provides security for Hezbullah. WTG eu just goes to show that they are all talk and no action. P.S. I thought the Bosnia was that shining jewell of the Clinton administration? I guess I was wrong. |
| Posted by: Cyber Sarge 2006-08-21 10:32 |
| #14 Sunday when the European countries that had been called upon to provide the backbone of a peacekeeping force delayed a decision on committing troops until the mission is more clearly defined. Yes indeed, please if you will, further define "peacekeeping." The Hezbots must be dancing in the streets and praying to Alan that the Euros never come. I think their prayers will be answered. Meanwhile .... In Lebanon, Prime Minister Fuad Saniora, a Sunni Muslim, and parliament speaker Nabih Berri, a Shiite and Hezbollah supporters, decried the destruction wrought by Israeli bombs as “crimes against humanity” during a highly publicized tour of the devastated guerrilla stronghold in Beirut’s southern suburbs on Sunday. WTF? I thought the Jooooooos failed and they "WON" the bloody war. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2006-08-21 08:35 |
| #13 Thats exactly whats happening Swamp Blondie, good catch! Now a number of NGO's, for peace of course, will go in there and rebuild Hezbullah. The French have this fear of Bosnia happening to them again, cowards cowards cowards. Well if my memory is right it was the French and the rest of europe that stood by and watched the ethnic clensing of Bosnia, only to go in when it was just about over and fairly safe. I think at the end of the day europes cold feet will help Israel in this war by not getting in the middle of it in any real sense, boots on the ground. Israel will ignore europe and needs nothing from them to be successful against the Hez. |
| Posted by: 49 Pan 2006-08-21 08:18 |
| #12 A week ago I thought that the Israeli attack was hampered by a reluctant Olmert, and the cease fire was intended to give Israel a chance to remove Olmert and prepare to attack a second time. Now, I can see the brilliant move to expose the UN as the collection of yoyos they are. Priceless. |
| Posted by: wxjames 2006-08-21 07:32 |
| #11 What Mr. Hastings fails to comprehend is that Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair are in a race against time to prevent a real war against Islam. Why shouldn't there be a real war against Islam? Islam has mounted a real war against civilization. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2006-08-21 06:16 |
| #10 Ok, sort of O.T. here, but what's to prevent the gulf states from funneling $ to the Palis under the cover of "rebuilding Lebanon"? Not that the "Coalition of the Unwilling" here would actually do much about it if they saw it going on, but I really doubt Malaysia would raise the alarm, for example. |
| Posted by: Swamp Blondie 2006-08-21 04:23 |
| #9 #8 Joe - It's New Math, of course. |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2006-08-21 03:13 |
| #8 FOX Boys > made the Frenchies look good by still using the number "400" before breakfast. STill hard to explain how 15000 =became 2-4000 became 2-400 became SSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, 200. |
| Posted by: JosephMendiola 2006-08-21 03:12 |
| #7 opss -- got A's each Friday in elementary school on spelling tests. Didn't translate to my ability to spell, or to use the right letters on keyboards. Let's change "Are Bush and Blair showing down the war" to "Are Bush and Blair slowing down the war" |
| Posted by: Sherry 2006-08-21 02:11 |
| #6 Hummm -- Kofi is so worried about his legacy when departing in December.. so he can't really be happy with this change of events. Being from the NYT, gotta be noted, someone is at least recognizing, nobody is going to Lebanon. Nobody but the Islamics want to go. Picture of the week was the baker's dozen French soldiers arriving by watercraft! Had to LOL at that! (Blackfive has a picture, Chris Wallace had video clip on Fox) From a poster at Belmont Club, commenting on an article by a BBC columnist named Hastings of the "Peace in our Time believers, appro the position of these Europeans backing out of commitments: "The attitude of Mr. Hastings especially puts Tony Blair into a horrible situation. The British National Party is making inroads on the core constituency of the Labor Party – the blue collar vote. Mr. Blair is ideologically opposed to the BNP and racism in general, yet he also knows that if his defeatist critics on his backbench get their way, the way would be paved for the real racists to gain sway. What Mr. Hastings fails to comprehend is that Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair are in a race against time to prevent a real war against Islam." I found this statement of this race against time, one that deserves some thought. Kinda fits in with the earlier discussion about lots of folks feeling an impending something is about to happen. Are Bush and Blair showing down the war? Certainly a new thought, that I've not read or heard folks talking about. Could be like one anonymous military stated about getting our Navy and Marines in position for the evacuation of folks out of Lebanon, "Well, it takes time to get certain people to certain positions to do the certain things that certain people do in certain positions." |
| Posted by: Sherry 2006-08-21 02:06 |
| #5 The most pathetic institution on the planet. |
| Posted by: djohn66 2006-08-21 01:10 |
| #4 They are teflon coated by |
| Posted by: 3dc 2006-08-21 01:08 |
| #3 My, this does not make the UN or the Europeans look good. |
| Posted by: Fordesque 2006-08-21 01:04 |
| #2 Yeah, #1 CA - amazing. In other news, water is wet. |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2006-08-21 00:37 |
| #1 Amazing, the Euros condemn Israelis for taking a bit out of Hezbos, cry for ceasefire (make it stop! make it stop!), and then back out of any commitment. |
| Posted by: Captain America 2006-08-21 00:35 |