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| Fifth Column | |||
| Risen's source identified | |||
| 2006-01-11 | |||
But now, Tice tells ABC News that some of those secret "black world" operations run by the NSA were operated in ways that he believes violated the law. He is prepared to tell Congress all he knows about the alleged wrongdoing in these programs run by the Defense Department and the National Security Agency in the post-9/11 efforts to go after terrorists. "The mentality was we need to get these guys, and we're going to do whatever it takes to get them," he said. Tice says the technology exists to track and sort through every domestic and international phone call as they are switched through centers, such as one in New York, and to search for key words or phrases that a terrorist might use. "If you picked the word 'jihad' out of a conversation," Tice said, "the technology exists that you focus in on that conversation, and you pull it out of the system for processing." According to Tice, intelligence analysts use the information to develop graphs that resemble spiderwebs linking one suspect's phone number to hundreds or even thousands more.
But Tice disagrees. He says the number of Americans subject to eavesdropping by the NSA could be in the millions if the full range of secret NSA programs is used.
The same day The New York Times broke the story of the NSA eavesdropping without warrants, Tice surfaced as a whistleblower in the agency. He told ABC News that he was a source for the Times' reporters. But Tice maintains that his conscience is clear. "As far as I'm concerned, as long as I don't say anything that's classified, I'm not worried," he said. "We need to clean up the intelligence community. We've had abuses, and they need to be addressed." The NSA revoked Tice's security clearance in May of last year based on what it called psychological concerns and later dismissed him. Tice calls that bunk and says that's the way the NSA deals with troublemakers and whistleblowers. Today the NSA said it had "no information to provide." | |||
| Posted by:Dan Darling |
| #30 Rex Mundi: Its funny how you get sleepy, when your rnc approved talking points/propaganda is proven to be pure bs...lmao Repubs/Cons scream: "Russell Tice is a NUTJOB!!!" Sure youre right...lol Then it turns out he was the subject of whistleblower retaliation by the NSA... you repub/con guys crack me up...too funny. |
| Posted by: BirdDog 2006-01-11 15:59 |
| #29 I am issuing a demarche to Msr. BD |
| Posted by: Inspector Clueso 2006-01-11 22:18 |
| #28 Go, Pappy, go! ;-) |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2006-01-11 19:39 |
| #27 Bird dog did not hijack the thread. The thread was about Mr. Tice. You may find BD's comments objectionable, but they were at least germane to the issue. The last one was. I removed it. |
| Posted by: Pappy 2006-01-11 18:55 |
| #26 Bird dog did not hijack the thread. The thread was about Mr. Tice. You may find BD's comments objectionable, but they were at least germane to the issue. Now then: BD, if you're hoping for hearing, well, keep hoping. And if hearings are done, they'll be done by the Joint Intel committees, and much of that will be done in private, so as to protect sensitive information. What they're going to discover (I predict) is 1) Bush indeed has the authority to have the NSA do the programs they've done 2) No, the NSA did not engage in domestic spying and 3) some new legislation will be needed to tighten up the loose ends. I point out to you that every country has a right to spy on its enemies in time of war. We are indeed at war (al Qaeda sez so), and we have two authorizing resolutions (one for Afghanistan, one for Iraq). The idea that the NSA isn't allowed to listen in on a phone/e-mail that is suspected to have a link with al-Qaeda is, frankly, laughable. But I appreciate you Dems hammering this. Bush's approval rating has gone up, and I suspect it will go up some more :-) |
| Posted by: Steve White 2006-01-11 18:52 |
| #25 Why do you let Cassini - Left Angle - BirdDog - NMM - etc hijack these threads? This is typical DU bull$hit. |
| Posted by: SR-71 2006-01-11 18:00 |
| #24 Bird Dog I know you can't help it but can I point out something to you? Notice that Tice is the ONLY NSA employee to come forward and claim there is illegal activity going on? Trust me when I tell you there are hundreds (maybe thousands) of people working on programs just like this one and NONE of them have come forward claiming that there is illegal activity going on. Russ was diagnosed PRIOR to his claim that NSA was doing something illegal not after. So to summarize: First Russ thought the Agency had a spy, then the DIA was in cahoots, and finally (oh yeah I forgot) we was doing illegal wiretaps way back before those evil Bushitlerites took away my clearance. Calling Bill Burkett we have a playmate for you! Next Tice will claim to have recorded a conversation that will prove that Bush shirked his Guard service and strafed an elementary school while high on cocaine. |
| Posted by: Cyber Sarge 2006-01-11 17:09 |
#23
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| Posted by: BirdDog 2006-01-11 15:59 |
| #22 ..yawn Whatever...troll. |
| Posted by: Rex Mundi 2006-01-11 15:48 |
| #21 "The mentality was we need to get these guys, and we're going to do whatever it takes to get them," he said." "Apparently the mentality of Tice and many Democrats is that we don't need to get these guys and we're not going to do whatever it takes to get them." I'm sure that you too do not think there is any reason to go after AQ..... |
| Posted by: Mark E. 2006-01-11 15:45 |
| #20 excerpted from: "Brian Tice: Sliced & Diced" by: Brian Montpoli CBS NEWS The same day The New York Times broke the story of the NSA eavesdropping without warrants, Tice surfaced as a whistleblower in the agency. He told ABC News that he was a source for the Times' reporters. Tice was let go from the NSA last year. ABC News writes that he "is prepared to tell Congress all he knows about the alleged wrongdoing in these programs run by the Defense Department and the NSA in the post-9/11 efforts to go after terrorists." Parts of this story has been around for a little while â On Jan. 5, The Washington Times noted that Tice wanted to testify before Congress, based on letters written by Tice from Dec. 16th, the same day the New York Times broke the spy story. But questions about Russell Tice's credibility are now taking center stage, as is so often the case in these kinds of stories. When Tice was fired last May, Rebecca Carr of Cox News service tried to connect the dots. "The National Security Agency fired a high level intelligence official just days after he publicly urged Congress to pass stronger protections for federal whistleblowers facing retaliation," she wrote. It wasn't a clear cut case of whistleblower retaliation, however, as "Tice has been at the odds with the agency since he reported suspicions that a female co-worker at the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), was a spy for the People's Republic of China." (I guess so: "In June, 2003, the agency suspended his security clearances and ordered him to maintain the agency's vehicles by pumping gas and cleaning them. Last month, they ordered him to unload furniture at its warehouses.") This is where it gets weird â or weirder, anyway: The NSA ordered Tice to undergo an unscheduled psychological evaluation. There, a "Defense Department psychologist concluded that Tice suffered from psychotic paranoia." Tice later wrote that he "did this even though he admitted that I did not show any of the normal indications of someone suffering from paranoia." (There have been documented cases where government whistleblowers or troublemakers have been intimidated or persecuted through forced psychological testing.) In light of all this, conservative bloggers are taking shots at Tice and Risen's story. Noting that "Russ Tice is a former NSA employee who was dismissed when a psychiatric evaluation found him to be mentally unbalanced," Stephen Spruiell of National Review Online excerpts an earlier post in which he wrote, "If Tice turns out to be one of the NY Times' anonymous sources for its NSA stories, didn't the Times readers deserve to know that its information came from a potentially unbalanced ex-employee with an ax to grind?" **please note the statement in parenthesis above by the author and the last paragraph : It says it all.The more things change, the more they stay the same..Especially for repubs/cons. Same bs tactics/different day. |
| Posted by: BirdDog 2006-01-11 15:22 |
| #19 But Tice disagrees. He says the number of Americans subject to eavesdropping by the NSA could be in the millions if the full range of secret NSA programs is used. Does anyone really think there are millions of potential terrorists on U.S. soil worth listening in on? I think not. |
| Posted by: Bomb-a-rama 2006-01-11 15:06 |
| #18 I am sorry I wasn't clearer: "Russell Tice has NO credibility.â I come to this conclusion because there are a lot more people involved in this operation and so far NONE of them seem to believe that this operation was illegal and the fact that Tice is a certified NUT. If I were looking for someone to defend my position I wouldnât choose someone who was diagnosed as paranoid delusional because (hold onto your tinfoil hat) they tend to imagine and make things up. |
| Posted by: Cyber Sarge 2006-01-11 14:19 |
| #17 also = previous Left Angle troll |
| Posted by: lotp 2006-01-11 14:16 |
| #16 BirdDog = Cassini Troll. |
| Posted by: Rex Mundi 2006-01-11 14:10 |
| #15 cyber sarge: So as far as you are concerned, Mr. Tice has zero credibility? Yes or No? |
| Posted by: BirdDog 2006-01-11 14:01 |
| #14 No Bird brain I am âpre-judgingâ Russ Tice because he was diagnosed as a paranoid delusional and loon of the highest order. In the video that he broke several rules revealing sources and methods. NSA has a whole room (and a wall) dedicated to spies/leakers and I think Russ should have his picture up there for all to see. BTW Russ would have visited this room when he signed for his special clearances (aint that ironic). |
| Posted by: Cyber Sarge 2006-01-11 13:40 |
| #13 The number of Americans subject to eavesdropping by the NSA could be in the millions if the full range of secret NSA programs is used. The number of Americans subject to death by our military could be in the millions if the full range of our nukes is used. |
| Posted by: KBK 2006-01-11 13:30 |
| #12 Personally, I will withold judgement until Mr. Tice testifies before Congress when and if the NSA hearings take place. I am highly suspect of the negative prejudement comments being directed at him from repubs/cons in this site because there is a pattern to it. Whenever there is a high profile critic of the Bush administration, which has the potential to be covered in the so-called MSM the RNC Slime Machine, kicks into gear attempting to smear the person, undermine his credibility and assasinate his character. It happens EVERY time. |
| Posted by: BirdDog 2006-01-11 13:25 |
| #11 Nope. Some are prejudging him because he has a history of publicly and vehemently clinging to damning accusations of others that, upon investigation, are not backed by the facts. For my part, the fact that he is or recently has been also under psychiatric treatment is at least potentially a separate issue, although the former may be the result of the condition for which the latter was necessary. |
| Posted by: too true 2006-01-11 13:09 |
| #10 Cyber Sarge repubs/cons: Why not let Mr. Tice testify before Congress under oath in the upcoming NSA hearings before drawing any conclusions? Are you not prejuding Mr. Tice because of your fear that he will reveal damaging information on President Bush and his administration? I think so. |
| Posted by: BirdDog 2006-01-11 13:02 |
| #9 Sorry, I didn't see your post, please delete mine. I hope they through this yahoo in prison for a long time. He isn't a patriot or a whistle blower he is just a nutjob blowhard. Too bad he didnât pull a Bill Burkett and go through the DNC. But this line is priceless: âAs far as I'm concerned, as long as I don't say anything that's classified, I'm not worried.â Well Russ you should have read your security agreement a little closer because a lot of what he talked about is classified. The AG can make a pretty good case just by showing the ABC interview and then reading the agreement that I am sure Russ signed when he got his security clearance. But I guess all that security and loyalty shit goes out the window if the current resident of the White House is a Republican. |
| Posted by: Cyber Sarge 2006-01-11 12:06 |
| #8 #7 The NSA revoked Tice's security clearance in May of last year based on what it called psychological concerns and later dismissed him. Tice calls that bunk and says that's the way the NSA deals with troublemakers and whistleblowers. Today the NSA said it had "no information to provide." Maybe I'm just naive, but I'd hope that the NSA wasn't just limited to using psycho labels as means of 'dealing with troublemakers'. Firing a government employee is nearly as difficult as teaching a Duroc to fly. I suspect NSA legal council has it's perverbial ducks in a row. Just my guess. |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2006-01-11 11:46 |
| #7 The NSA revoked Tice's security clearance in May of last year based on what it called psychological concerns and later dismissed him. Tice calls that bunk and says that's the way the NSA deals with troublemakers and whistleblowers. Today the NSA said it had "no information to provide." Maybe I'm just naive, but I'd hope that the NSA wasn't just limited to using psycho labels as means of 'dealing with troublemakers'. |
| Posted by: Anon4021 2006-01-11 11:35 |
| #6 "If you picked the word 'jihad' out of a conversation," Tice said, "the technology exists that you focus in on that conversation, and you pull it out of the system for processing." Well, that's just terrible. Now if they were picking out "Hillary is a commie dyke" that would be okay. And: He says the number of Americans subject to eavesdropping by the NSA could be in the millions if the full range of secret NSA programs is used How often is the "full range" of anything used? It's not like there are are 20 million NSA ops to listen in on everything. |
| Posted by: Claviling Fleremble7614 2006-01-11 11:32 |
| #5 Risin about to go down in Plames. |
| Posted by: Creck Ulagum6581 2006-01-11 09:40 |
| #4 They just backed the wrong pony. Watch this one. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2006-01-11 09:30 |
| #3 yep |
| Posted by: Frank G 2006-01-11 08:44 |
| #2 Isn't this the guy that accused a coworker of spying, and when the NSA cleared the coworker, he refused to drop it? |
| Posted by: Desert Blondie 2006-01-11 07:00 |
| #1 "The mentality was we need to get these guys, and we're going to do whatever it takes to get them," he said. This is a bad thing!?!? Check out his pic. He's too fat to hang. |
| Posted by: ST 2006-01-11 05:30 |