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| Britain | |
| Explosions in southern England? | |
| 2005-12-11 | |
Just broke on the terriblevision, no word yet as to how serious or whether or not it was the Bad Guys.
The incident at the Buncefield fuel depot near Hemel Hempstead, after 0600 GMT, was said to be the largest of its kind in peacetime Europe. The fire, which police believe was an accident, could burn for another day. About 2,000 people living near the site have been evacuated, while police have advised others to keep their windows and doors closed because of fumes. Thick clouds of smoke are spreading to the south-east and south-west of the site. One person is in Watford General Hospital in intensive care with respiratory problems. Another person is in Hemel Hempstead Hospital being kept under observation. The other 41 people were treated for minor injuries and discharged. Witnesses said another two explosions followed the first at 0626 GMT and 0627 GMT at the site near junction 8 of the M1. In total, 20 petrol tanks were involved in the fire, each said to hold three million gallons of fuel. Hertfordshire Police Chief Constable Frank Whiteley told a press conference: "There is still a possibility there could be further explosions." A police investigation into the incident has begun, including investigations by anti-terrorist police. But Chief Con Whiteley said there was "nothing to suggest anything other than an accident". A Hertfordshire fire service spokesman said: "This is possibly the largest incidence of its kind in peacetime Europe." Mr Prescott is on his way to the scene of the blast having earlier visited Hertfordshire police headquarters. Many houses have been damaged, with some reporting feeling effects from the explosion as far away as Oxfordshire - while it was heard in a number of counties and even France and the Netherlands. Eye witnesses reported buckled front doors, cracked walls and blown-out windows. The M1 has been closed both ways between junctions 6a and 12 and may remain shut on Monday. Schools in and around Hemel Hempstead are likely to be closed on Monday, said police. The M10 motorway is closed in both directions between junction 1 and junction 7 as well as some arterial roads in Hemel Hempstead. Motorists have been told not to go "anywhere near the M1 from the M25 upwards". At Heathrow airport some flights were forced to delay landing because of smoke, but Luton airport was operating as usual. The Buncefield depot is a major distribution terminal operated by Total and part-owned by Texaco, storing oil, petrol as well as kerosene which supplies airports across the region, including Heathrow and Luton. The country's fifth largest fuel distribution depot, it is also used by BP, Shell and British Pipeline. Police said there was no indication the explosion would cause fuel shortages and warned against panic-buying. A spokesman for Total said: "We are doing everything we can to support the emergency services and to bring the situation under control." A spokesman for the Department for Trade and Industry said it was too early to say what the effect would be on fuel supply but oil companies were getting oil from other parts of the south east and across the UK. "We understand that the oil industry is meeting this afternoon to determine how the supply of petroleum products can be augmented from other distribution terminals," he said. | |
| Posted by:Dan Darling |
| #47 Gorgeous statement, Rory. I don't think well in that direction, so it's a great help when others do so in front of me. Thanks! |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2005-12-11 23:16 |
| #46 2b, It is definitely possible to suppress information about this kind of thing, and in fact I believe it is policy. This is why simultaneous attacks are preferred by al Qaeda - it's much, much harder to deny terrorism in those cases. When those Chechnyan black widows blew up Aeroflot planes simultaneously last year, the Russians hemmed and hawed for two days before they finally admitted the obvious. If a government can argue accident, a authorities will deny it's terrorism. If a government can't deny it's terrorism, they'll minimize the scope... only a "few extremists." If it's more than a "few extremists" it's a loosely connected group of extremists. Loosely connected extremists who never, ever have state support. I don't believe it's wise policy, for three major reasons. A government of by and for the people must ultimately come clean, so the electorate can make informed decisions come election time. A dishonest policy will undermine trust in government. My immediate response to this was to distrust the official line. It may well be accidental, but the immediate denial of any malicous intent makes me even more suspicious. I've read huge amounts on terrorist acts against the United States, and how it ties in with our current wars -- everything from Laurie Mylrioe to David Ray Griffen... Griffen and his kind are difficult for me to stomach, but I can see where they are coming from, even though he's flat &@#$ing wrong. But because I've been so immersed in the official disinformation tactics, I can see how an outside observer, closely examining one or two terrorist incidents in isolation, can come to the conclusion that a few government insiders are the real culprits. Want to see a minor example? Do a Rantburg search: basf texas |
| Posted by: Rory B. Bellows 2005-12-11 22:46 |
| #45 Its about halfway between Stansted and Heathrow airports - 20+ miles from both. Flights to Heathrow from the East come over that area, but fairly high - 5,000 feet+(?). I assume light aircraft are given a lower elevation. |
| Posted by: phil_b 2005-12-11 20:25 |
| #44 Isn't there an airport nearby? If so, a plane coming in low to the ground might simply be a routing to land. The authorities should be able to id any regularly scheduled flight or private plane that filed a flight plan. Normally I'd say that a small plane might slip in under radar watch, but isn't that area pretty heavily monitored due to Heathrow etc? |
| Posted by: lotp 2005-12-11 19:32 |
| #43 I don't know, Colt. I've seen many a plane in the wee dark hours when taking out my dog. That said, it will be tough to lie about a plane hitting the site. |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-12-11 19:09 |
| #42 As many as can see a UFO. |
| Posted by: Ebbaviter Omeang1276 2005-12-11 18:51 |
| #41 "Several say they saw a plane" The explosion happened at 6am - it is dark at 6am here. How many people are awake at 6am to see a plane in the dark? |
| Posted by: Colt 2005-12-11 18:36 |
| #40 Gromky - It's the first chapter of "Red Storm Rising". Hush...remember what the last chapter of 'Debt Of Honor' got us. Mike |
| Posted by: Mike Kozlowski 2005-12-11 17:53 |
| #39 That's correct, EU. |
| Posted by: Rafael 2005-12-11 15:16 |
| #38 No, someone understands Economics 101. |
| Posted by: Ebbager Unort9150 2005-12-11 15:01 |
| #37 So let me guess, the price of gasoline in the UK will quadruple almost immediately, until it falls back to normal in about two weeks. Someone's learned some lessons from Katrina :-) |
| Posted by: Rafael 2005-12-11 14:30 |
| #36 I am not a conspiracy nut, but the authorities instantly saying that it was an accident is a bunch of crap. They do not know yet. They will have to investigate for a while; they just want to prevent panic by those that would instantly think "terrorism." An oil depot would be a good place to start an attack. Gotta have storage of product, and it is a critical node, so an attack is a possibility. We will just have to wait for an investigation. Shistos Shistadogaloo UK---Cool handle, heh. Is it related to metamorphic rocks? |
| Posted by: Alaska Paul 2005-12-11 13:25 |
| #35 obviously the work of seething Anglicans leaving fiery sunday sermons |
| Posted by: Frank G 2005-12-11 12:03 |
| #34 I tend to disbelieve in the ability of an open society to keep information secret, even through incompetence. As of today I am beginning, to believe that it is entirely possible to suppress information from being "verified" and thus clear and overwhelming facts are ignorned by logical people - due to the lack of official confirmation. This will be a good test. Today is the 11th. The British were on high alert expecting an attack. Ayman just called for strikes on oil - a rebroadcast. Several say they saw a plane (though eyewitness is always suspect and I think that would be hard to lie about. But it does remind me of the missle sightings that were ignored by investigators in flight 800). It may be beneficial to deny AQ the satisfaction of the victory. I'm ok with it if they do it until the excitement wears off. But if they don't, at some point, acknowledge the truth - then that's truly frightening. |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-12-11 11:24 |
| #33 My dad used to be head of safety at a Petrochemical plant in Texas, after being a safety inspector for DuPont. When he first arrived they were averaging 1 accident w/ injury every six weeks. After some serious retraining and reinforcing the idea of safety, he got it down to 1 accident in 2 years. Despite all this, they still managed to catch a cracking tower on fire and after he rushed out after a late night phone call, our mom pointed the flames out to us. We could see them 22 miles away. Thanks to all the training, they put it out injury free, but even a well run and safety conscious oil facility can have accidents. That's why I don't tend to see these as terrorist incidents unless they find some hard evidence. Working with oil, this is going to happen every so often. |
| Posted by: Silentbrick 2005-12-11 11:23 |
| #32 today is the 11th. |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-12-11 11:07 |
| #31 Partier, do we have someone from OSHA on board who can look at the last few decades of petroleum industry accidents and see if there is a trend? Hey...come back and let us know what you find out - cause with the mistake by Al Jaz, it would be interesting. |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-12-11 11:04 |
| #30 What will be indicative is how the multiple explosions in sequence are explained. I drive past a (smaller) fuel depot on my way to work. Those places have a whole lot of safety features designed to keep any fire or explosion a) spreading upward rather than outward and b) contained within a local area. This depot is reported to have had an excellent safety record. However, it is quite possible that whatever triggered the first, largest explosion overwhelmed those safety features. Which raises the question of what that cause was - and of course it could have been some failure of procedures or equipment, as OSHA says was the case with the BP explosion in Texas. |
| Posted by: lotp 2005-12-11 10:33 |
| #29 Thanks, as usual I'm getting more info and links from this site than the news on TV. I had hoped to see more photos and video of what's happening. The smoke reminds me of the photos in the 9-11 blast with all of the smoke in the air. I hope it isn't from terrorists, but I too am suspicious in that they so quickly glommed onto it being an accident. How can you tell that quickly. |
| Posted by: Jan 2005-12-11 10:00 |
| #28 Agreed re: conspiracy theories and agreed that what is needed here is solid data. What surprises me is that I haven't seen any articles along those lines ... perhaps this incident will cause someone to write one here or in the MSM. |
| Posted by: lotp 2005-12-11 09:56 |
| #27 Partier, do we have someone from OSHA on board who can look at the last few decades of petroleum industry accidents and see if there is a trend? I can't believe that if we were seeing problems there that the insurance companies would not be aware of it. And if they were they would be raising premiums. Someone would be leaking that to the NYT or some similar clarion of truth. I tend to disbelieve in the ability of an open society to keep information secret, even through incompetence. If anything, we have too much information and conspiracy theories. |
| Posted by: Clang Graigum2388 2005-12-11 09:32 |
| #26 I was on a beach near Galveston, Texas ten years ago when a bolt of lightening from a cloud several miles away (I was in bright sunshine) struck a barge unloading some sort of nasty chemical. Apparently one of those "bolts from the blue". I wonder if the unloading transfer process generated some sort of static that attracted the bolt? |
| Posted by: Bobby 2005-12-11 09:08 |
| #25 Orders from Headquarters Yes, it has that sound to it, doesn't it. Okay, it could be an accident. But there have been a LOT of those in the last 2-3 years, no? The refinery in TX, this one, attacks on ships carrying oil ..... Could be they are indeed accidents. But it fits another pattern too. The UK authorities need to go back to re-read T.H. Lawrence on Arab / desert tribal tactics ... whenever they can they destroy at the edges and melt away. It's a classic barbarian-attacking-civilization technique and al Q has it finely calibrated to keep the fuzzy-headed from being willing to see what's in front of their eyes. |
| Posted by: lotp 2005-12-11 08:52 |
| #24 What would make me believe it is an accident is that the site is described as a depot not a refinery. If it were terrorism, they're smart enough to know to blow a refinery, not a depost, unless it's home gown islamofascists. They might be that dumb. |
| Posted by: Thrith Hupineting1882 2005-12-11 08:50 |
| #23 How they would have determined it was an accident, I don't know. Orders from headquarters. |
| Posted by: Thrith Hupineting1882 2005-12-11 08:47 |
| #22 I can see the smoke from my house, 50 miles away. My dad felt the explosion (I'd have slept through it even if I lived in Luton...). The police are pretty sure it was an accident, despite their saying they think the place will be on fire for several more days. How they would have determined it was an accident, I don't know. |
| Posted by: Colt 2005-12-11 08:10 |
| #21 Remembering recent al-qaeda talking about attacking oil infrastructures |
| Posted by: Unetch Flinetch3868 2005-12-11 08:00 |
| #20 If this is the start of Al Qaeda's Christmas campaign, they've certainly got our attention. Stay safe, cousins. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2005-12-11 07:00 |
| #19 It's the first chapter of "Red Storm Rising". |
| Posted by: gromky 2005-12-11 05:38 |
| #18 DEBKAfile adds: Main fuel depots of this size are routinely equipped with systems for shutting down sections to curb the spread of fire or blasts. The multiple explosions that engulfed the entire installation and destroyed much of 'the nearby industrial estate indicate an unusual catastrophe of some kind. Witnesses reported heavy rumbles before the explosion, much as though an aircraft had crashed into the oil installations.' ok ok its Debka guys but they have a very valid point dont they in that these things dont normally go bang and then keep booming - valves and sht are meant to prevent this from happening. I suppose it must happen sometimes but it still seems fishy , i heard on sky from one person it was a pipeline segment that went up first which to me is very very fishy. Did Binnys boys creep out early on one Sunday morning to sabotage a pipeline/storage facility or just an accident..... of side note that if and its a big if it was binnys lot and they cause petrol prices to soar then the British public are gonna be seriously mad at Binny and co, hell blowing up busses and trains to kill innocent people might not anger alot of british appeasers but hiking up the fuel prices sure will! |
| Posted by: Shep UK 2005-12-11 05:22 |
| #17 Map of the area. |
| Posted by: Classical_Liberal 2005-12-11 05:18 |
| #16 I've driven round the back of this spot dozens of times. Fortunately, it's mostly surrounded by open field. And yes, it is quite close to Al-Luton. |
| Posted by: Classical_Liberal 2005-12-11 05:14 |
| #15 its amazing isnt it the way people allways get excited about loud explosions in this country - almost as if nobody has ever heard a loud boom before. God only knows how we in this country would act in wartime being bombed in this day and age. 16 nminor injuries they say and 4 serious so far. |
| Posted by: Shep UK 2005-12-11 05:12 |
| #14 good to see that our friends are ok, keep us informed. thanks |
| Posted by: Red Dog 2005-12-11 05:07 |
| #13 BBC Comment: There was a loud explosion, louder than anything I've heard before in my life. My neighbour said that in the Second World War a V2 rocket went off at the bottom of his road and it wasn't anything in comparison. I have a perfect view from my back window and luckily it is dying down a lot, but from what I hear there could be more at any moment. Adam Whyle, Hemel |
| Posted by: Rory B. Bellows 2005-12-11 04:36 |
| #12 sht just twigged to find wind direction and weather forecast incase i get collered by the smog sht. |
| Posted by: Shep UK 2005-12-11 04:16 |
| #11 wow quite a boom eh, im not even sure where hemel hempstead is but i never heard it in down here in Lymington, bah guess its nowhere near me. The thick smog sht is gonna be the real pain now, asthmatics need to stay in - wait guy on t.v says evacuation in surrounding several mile radius cos its to dangerous. Yeah the t.v crews will spend the next few days filming the smoke whilst explaining how it may have happened with computer graphics and 'experts'. |
| Posted by: Shep UK 2005-12-11 04:15 |
| #10 It is near Luton, which is where al Muhajiroun supporters are based. It could be some kind of tactic to bring the country to a standstill attacking fuel depots. That also could be me being paranoid. |
| Posted by: Shistos Shistadogaloo UK 2005-12-11 04:03 |
| #9 Hi all, I heard the explosion from where I live approx 40 miles away. It was like a mini earthquake, I thought someone was breaking in the house. It happend at approx 6am UK time. The incidnt is being treated as an accident but you never know. No plane involved and thinking about it would AQ hit somewhere with a higher population and this depot has no housing that close. The only casualties are likely to be staff at the refinery. Massive blast but terrorism very unlikely. SS UK Berkshire |
| Posted by: Shistos Shistadogaloo UK 2005-12-11 03:53 |
| #8 One eye-witness reported that the first massive explosion that woke people up was actually preceded by a smaller explosion. |
| Posted by: Zoom 2005-12-11 03:53 |
| #7 Sky reports 8 dead. Unconfirmed. No mention of an airplane in any of the recent reports. The police assure us it is an accident. UK Fire Marshalls conduct investigations with amazing speed. Link There are unconfirmed reports that eight people have been killed in a large explosion, followed by several smaller blasts, near Hemel Hempstead, around 25 miles north of London. At least 12 crews have been sent to the scene, where flames are soaring up to 200ft in the sky. The blast appears to be centered around the Buncefield fuel depot near junction 8 of the M1. It was so powerful it was felt more than 20 miles away. Hertfordshire Police have said the explosion was an "accident" and nothing sinister. Thousands of viewers are contacting Sky News with reports it shook houses many miles away. Witnesses have said that buildings have been brought down and the roofs of houses were lifted by the force. One witness said he was near the site when the blast happened and he saw a building "open up like a dolls house". Sky Reporter Enda Brady is at the scene. He said there has been a lot of structural damage to surrounding buildings. "As for residential buildings, it would appear that most people have got away with just blown out windows and cracks," he said. Brady said he can see a "colossal column of thick black acrid smoke". He added: "People are very, very shocked. Many are walking around int heir bed clothes." The windows were blown out at the Ramada hotel in Hemel Hempstead, which is being evacuated after reports of injuries. Sky News Correspondent Geoff Meade heard the blast at his home. He immediately called Sky Centre in west London, which was also shook by the explosion, and described "burning tongues" of flames in the sky. The first blast happened at 6.03am - it was followed by several smaller explosions. Meade, a seasoned war reporter, said he can see what looks like "burning aviation fuel". "This fire is extremely intense. It is a bright orange glow on the horizon," he said. Witnesses have told Sky News that emergency services are converging on the area. Sky News producer Anwar Tambe heard the blast from his home in Luton and is currently stuck in traffic on the M1. He said blasts are "going off regularly" and debris has blown onto the motorway. |
| Posted by: Rory B. Bellows 2005-12-11 03:46 |
| #6 Could be. Re-aired for emphasis, not laziness. Any recent blips from Jamaat-ul-Fuqra or Harkat-ul-Mujahudin? Or the Syrian Brotherhood? |
| Posted by: Rory B. Bellows 2005-12-11 03:14 |
| #5 Police are already saying that it was an accident, and that there was definitely no plane involved. To make such definitive statements so soon after the initial explosions seems highly suspicious to me, to say the least. |
| Posted by: Nothing To See Here 2005-12-11 03:06 |
| #4 UPDATE: Terriblevision sez the cops believe (unofficially) that this was some kind of an accident. |
| Posted by: Dan Darling 2005-12-11 03:04 |
| #3 Could be that someone was waiting for Ayman's call to hit oil facilities ... are we sure that al-Jazeera made a "mistake" in choosing to re-air that portion of his September address? |
| Posted by: Dan Darling 2005-12-11 02:43 |
| #2 "Several other neighbours said they did see a plane go into the depot." Hmmm. I'm printing a few copies of this in case this news story suddenly disappears in a few minutes. |
| Posted by: Rory B. Bellows 2005-12-11 02:38 |
| #1 Link Three large explosions have taken place at an oil depot near Hemel Hempstead in Hertfordshire. Police say there are casualties. They are at the scene, said a spokesman. The first blast happened at 0603 GMT, at the Buncefield oil depot, close to the junction 8 of the M1 motorway 10 miles from Luton Airport. Residents up to 30 miles from the scene reported hearing a "loud boom". One eye witness told BBC News: "There are lots of houses damaged." Witnesses said another two explosions followed the first at 0626 GMT and 0627 GMT. The M1 near the scene has been closed in both directions. 'House shook' Eye witness Sam Matton, who lives half-a-mile from the depot told BBC News: "The sky is sort of orange. The flames have got to be 60ft up in the air. "I was in bed, I was actually having a bad dream and I thought the world had ended. "The loft hatch in my house has actually fallen out, my neighbour's window has actually broken from the impact. "There was a first major explosion and about three explosions after that. Dave Franklin told BBC News: "We woke up at 0555 GMT. There was a massive loud bang which broke windows above us and to the right. The whole sky just turned orange and black. "Several other neighbours said they did see a plane go into the depot." Duncan Milligan, of Hemel Hempstead, said he was awoken by the explosion as his house "shook". "There was a loud boom and the house shook violently. "I am about three miles from where the explosion took place but I can see flames high in the sky and smoke billowing everywhere. "There is clearly a building on fire near the motorway and police and emergency services are everywhere." |
| Posted by: Rory B. Bellows 2005-12-11 02:25 |