Now, what's all this talk about removing Crosses, and Stars of David from Cemetaries?
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| Atheist group wants memorial crosses removed | |
| 2005-12-05 | |
| A lawsuit filed by the American Atheists in U.S. District Court on Thursday seeks to remove steel crosses that dot roadways throughout Utah and memorialize Utah Highway Patrol troopers who have died in the line of duty. The suit has drawn harsh reaction from family members of the fallen troopers and promises to be the source of an emotional battle. The crosses, which stand about 12 feet high and bear the trooper's name and the UHP insignia, were erected starting in 1998 and serve as a memorial for 14 troopers who have died since 1931. About nine of the crosses are on public land and all of them are placed near the spot where the troopers lost their lives. Plaintiffs Stephen Clark, Michael Rivers and Richard Andrews in conjunction with the American Atheists Inc. also seek to have the UHP symbol removed from the crosses. "The presence of the UHP logo on a poignant religious symbol is an unconstitutional violation of the United States Constitution. It is government endorsement of religion," said Rivers, Utah director for American Atheists. Rivers said the purpose of the suit is to eliminate religious symbols used by government agencies and placed on government land. American Atheists claim to have a membership of 30 million people. They are not opposed to memorials, just the crosses. "We feel the department of transportation, by allowing the Utah Highway Patrol Association to pick a religious symbol is unfair. We think it should be totally secular with no religious theme," Rivers said. "[The cross] is a Christian religious symbol. People will look at those and automatically assume that religion is a part of it." But the Utah Highway Patrol Association, a nonprofit, private organization, doesn't see it that way. "The crosses are used as an international sign of memorial similar to those in Arlington National Cemetery," said Sgt. Todd Royce, who served as the association's president in 2002. "As a trooper, it makes me feel bad that it's even an issue. I know a couple of these troopers that have fallen and it's personal to us. We would hope the memorial of these troopers wouldn't be tarnished by any means."
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| Posted by:Steve White |
| #16 Where were these limpdicks when we needed them? We could have used them a month or two ago when the Sheehanoids were placing crosses in a Crawford Tx field for their faux 'memorial' to the troops. Faux church-state separation outrage, meet faux memorial - crosses in, crosses out. |
| Posted by: Jomong Slolump1324 2005-12-05 22:42 |
| #15 Now, what's all this talk about removing Crosses, and Stars of David from Cemetaries? |
| Posted by: G.O.D. 2005-12-05 19:00 |
| #14 they are doing this in Utah? |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-12-05 18:01 |
| #13 Note to aa, inc:"STFU." |
| Posted by: USN, ret. 2005-12-05 15:18 |
| #12 Also note that the article leads you to believe that 5 of these crosses are on PRIVATE PROPERTY and that the Association that chose the symbol is a Private, Non-Profit organization, which is not subject to the same "Church/State separation" as official gov't is. In other words, this is like suing me if I put up a private memorial on my own property to memorialize Ronald Reagan and used the symbol of the Office of the President in the memorial. Also, note it happened in Utah (something like 85% Mormon), so I don't think this case has legs. However, all it takes is 1 black robe to "say" otherwise. |
| Posted by: BA 2005-12-05 14:09 |
| #11 Why do athiests' wishes have to be catered to, but nobody else's? Where is the equal protection under the law? Where is the fight over suppressing the "free expression" of religion? There is no such wording in the Constitution as "Separation of Church and State" - only the injunction not to create a State religion. It's time to reverse a stupid decision that has been detrimental to this nation for 30+ years now. While we're at it, we need to shoot a bunch of lawyers that hate Christianity and want to see it outlawed or forced underground in the United States. They are definitely enemies of the Constitution, and of the people it represents. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot 2005-12-05 14:07 |
| #10 My first question to an lawsuit is, do the "Plaintiffs" have standing (a legal term meaning that they were personally harmed by the act)? If not (I assume the 3 atheists probably have never even been to Utah, or at least have not seen the crosses and been "offended"), then this case should be thrown out faster than you can say "Die you liberal scum." (BTW, that was the reason the original Newdow suit over "under God" in the Pledge was thrown out...he had NO standing, as he was suing on behalf of his daughter, whom he did NOT have custody of, and whom didn't mind saying the Pledge as-is, because she herself is a Christian). |
| Posted by: BA 2005-12-05 14:05 |
| #9 Decimal Error? I doubt there's 3,000 members of American Athiests, Inc. |
| Posted by: Floter Thath1400 2005-12-05 14:02 |
| #8 Decimal error. I doubt that the country is 10% athiest when some polls show 87% claim to be Christian. |
| Posted by: SR-71 2005-12-05 13:51 |
| #7 American Atheists claim to have a membership of 30 million people. Are they claiming all of us atheists as members? Like a wise man said: "What do you mean 'we', kemo sabe?" Keep your identity politics under yer ugly little hat. |
| Posted by: BH 2005-12-05 13:36 |
| #6 Don't worry, guys - if you get killed on the highway, we'll put up...nothin'. That should make you happy. |
| Posted by: mojo 2005-12-05 13:23 |
| #5 American Atheists claim to have a membership of 30 million people. Our intrepid reporter should've been all over that claim. |
| Posted by: tu3031 2005-12-05 13:23 |
| #4 Wonder if its going to take a similar group and a brain dead federal judge to order the removal of the crosses from Arlington to finally get Congress to impeach a few robe wears to settle the issue and quit trying to pass the buck. Remove a couple and the judiciary will certainly get the message. Don't wait for the appeal process. Shock and awe can be effective. They'll whine, they'll cry, but their behavior will be modified. Maybe then they'll remember 'Consent of the Governed' in their deliberations. |
| Posted by: Flavinter Greresh9791 2005-12-05 12:57 |
| #3 I agree with Steve, that was my first thought too. Those asshats seriously need to get over themselves. |
| Posted by: Xbalanke 2005-12-05 12:54 |
| #2 I wonder where that 30 million number comes from? |
| Posted by: Spavigum Sloter1346 2005-12-05 12:47 |
| #1 As an atheist, I find this sick, twisted and perverted. This group needs killed. Leave the crosses alone. And by the way, leave Christmas alone too, or I'll club you with a baby Jesus! |
| Posted by: mmurray821 2005-12-05 12:27 |