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| 'Narnia represents everything that is most hateful about religion' | |
| 2005-12-05 | |
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| Posted by:Steve White |
| #24 Scoff away. Your whole argument is reduced to the fact of what? that you don't seem to like blogs? --- you are not even disputing that genocide and murder happened and was blessed by Christian churches in the Balkans, you simply scoff that I picked a blog entry that detailed such. Fine, you pick one of the thousand other sources that will tell you exactly the same. When you can't scoff at the argument, scoff at the words. When you can't scoff at the words, scoff at the source. When you can't scoff at the source, scoff at the style of the webpage. Whatever, scoffer. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2005-12-06 00:00 |
| #23 Too many worshippers of Tashlan nowadays. Too many people who think they can violate every aspect of their religion, advocate murder, torture, even genocide, as long as they do it in good Jesus' name. You fool only yourself Aris. I merely pointed out the obvious. Your bigoted attempt at slurring Christians was pathetically obvious and ridiculous considering today's reality - something you are detached from. The best you can do is to support your claim was a blog entry. I scoff again. Seems the Turks would have been first on your mind, since you are such a pious soul. I'd tell you to go to hell, but that would be un-Christian of me. Instead I'll turn the other cheek. Perhaps .com can provide an appropriate graphic. |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-12-05 20:51 |
| #22 Poly's an angry lil bitch, ain't she? What Wally George helped her reproduce? That much spite makes you sick - ask Molly |
| Posted by: Frank G 2005-12-05 19:50 |
| #21 Let's just not mention the "methods" used by the Ottoman Turks to move people from Christianity several hundred years ago, when they conquered the region. Such a discussion would be "inconvienient" You are making my very point about Tashlan, though you can't see it. That you seem to care about in whose deity's name something was done, rather than the good or evil of the deed itself. Instead of arguing that the Serbs increased the number of crimes committed by the previous Ottoman worshippers of Tashlan, you seem to think that they are somehow on different sides of the scales, to be weighed *against* each other -- just because they used a different deity's name to do their works for. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2005-12-05 19:47 |
| #20 "We need no holy guide books, only a very human moral compass." Ummmm, where do you think that moral compass came from ass-hat lady? It is Europe's secularism that will be its downfall. The continent is adrift because it's moral compass has lost the bearing point. It is a soceital sickness that will not easily be cured. I would guess that the people will only cry for Christ when real pain and danger is upon them. Sad that it would come to that. |
| Posted by: remoteman 2005-12-05 19:47 |
| #19 Jeese, Aris, for a moment I thought you were going to have a sane comment noting that the entire WOT is based on a religion that wants to bring us to Mohammed by sword and has no problem with advocating murder, genocide and torture to achieve it. That would have been evasion, you absolute moron. You asked me about genocidal fanatics that preach murder, genocide, torture, in the name of *Jesus*, not Allah. Perhaps you yourself don't read your own words, but I do. Thanks for enlightening me with your blog entry. (scoff) Jeez, 2b, for a moment I had wondered you were gonna admit the ludicrousness of your former attempts to pretend that there are no genocidal pretend-Christians at all. But nope, yet again, your dishonest tactics show themselves once more. Nice "scoff" there. (Btw, you've never read what CS Lewis says about scoffers in the Screwtape Letters, have you?) I wasn't aware that the conflict in Bosnia was inspired by Christians wishing to convert their Moslem neighbors by the sword. Such a simple explanation. Now, did I claim that anywhere? Nice dishonesty yet again. Nice strawman. Nice evasion. Nice scoffing. Nice lies. You asked me a question. After less than two hours (during which time I was watching a movie) you mocked me, claiming that I was incapable of answering it. When I had seen your post, I answered it completely and easily in two seconds. At which point you "scoff" yet again. You know why scoffers are the lowest form of moral creatures, 2b, even worse than ad hominem attackers? Because in their "scoffing", they don't actually attack any point of their opponent's argument, or even their opponent as a person, they attack the whole idea of moral decision-making and meaningful debate as a whole. They try to reduce the whole of human morality into a gigglefest of point-and-mock. Congrats, 2b, you made the thread personal yet again. And showed yourself for the worm that you are. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2005-12-05 19:37 |
| #18 Let's just not mention the "methods" used by the Ottoman Turks to move people from Christianity several hundred years ago, when they conquered the region. Such a discussion would be "inconvienient" |
| Posted by: BigEd 2005-12-05 19:21 |
| #17 Jeese, Aris, for a moment I thought you were going to have a sane comment noting that the entire WOT is based on a religion that wants to bring us to Mohammed by sword and has no problem with advocating murder, genocide and torture to achieve it. Thanks for enlightening me with your blog entry. (scoff) I wasn't aware that the conflict in Bosnia was inspired by Christians wishing to convert their Moslem neighbors by the sword. Such a simple explanation. |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-12-05 19:16 |
| #16 First of all, I said "people", I didn't say "people of note". nice try, Aris. Name me one person of note advocating murder, torture or genocide in Jesus' name. To the contrary, many cheeks were turned in an effort to avoid war. Secondly: Whatever, idiot boy: Read Read here and stop trying to turn this thread into a personal one yet again. hmm...haven't heard from Aris. He must still be out searching google in the hope he can find a somebody advocating torture, genocide and murder in Jesus' name. Keep it up, Aris - I'm sure you can find someone. Yeah, me being in the Balkans it was so very difficult to find people advocating crimes in religion's name. Took me two seconds to find the link -- and frankly the reasons I give you the Serbs is because, unlike you, I am not in the mood to go *much* more personal and discuss the nice little suggestions that nice little Christian Rantburgers have made in the past. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2005-12-05 18:21 |
| #15 We need no holy guide books, only a very human moral compass. Everyone needs ghosts, spirits, marvels and poetic imaginings, but we can do well without an Aslan. She sounds bitter and confused. I think she should stick to Scooby Doo. |
| Posted by: wakeupcall 2005-12-05 18:18 |
| #14 hmm...haven't heard from Aris. He must still be out searching google in the hope he can find a somebody advocating torture, genocide and murder in Jesus' name. Keep it up, Aris - I'm sure you can find someone. |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-12-05 17:55 |
| #13 Those who think that the God of Israel is a meek God haven't read the Bible. The left wants to make Jesus into a limp wristed pansy boy - who walked around with a halo over his head, giving out candy canes to the children, but he was not. If you want to understand Christianity - think Alcoholics Anonymous. You acknowledge that you are a sinner, repent of your ways, and you ask for forgivenes and it's granted so that you can move forward. There is never any expectation that you have become perfect - rather it's just the opposite....it's understood that you are going to have to work hard to fight temptation so that you can live a better life. Think also of those saintly souls that you know who go out to dark alleys to help the drug addicts, the homeless people, the prostitutes. It's not fun or easy and it is dangerous. Not a job for the faint of heart. |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-12-05 17:39 |
| #12 "Over the years, others have had uneasy doubts about the Narnian brand of Christianity. Christ should surely be no lion (let alone with the orotund voice of Liam Neeson). He was the lamb, representing the meek of the earth, weak, poor and refusing to fight." Ah, yes, I see. The only aspects of Christianity that are good....... ....... are the ones which coincide with cultural Marxist notions of what is good. Fart. |
| Posted by: No Mo Uro 2005-12-05 16:41 |
| #11 Too many people who think they can violate every aspect of their religion, advocate murder, torture, even genocide, as long as they do it in good Jesus' name. nice try, Aris. Name me one person of note advocating murder, torture or genocide in Jesus' name. To the contrary, many cheeks were turned in an effort to avoid war. |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-12-05 16:35 |
| #10 Don't forget. Aslan isn't a tame lion. The Left would want a tame religion which they can use to beat themselves over the head and enslave others. Kind of like the Ape in The Last Battle putting up a fake tame Aslan in order to get people to do what he wants. I always thought the whole idea behind redemption was that man[kind] cannot, without help, achieve redemption - being flawed. It took God, in the form of Jesus, and without sin, to make the ultimate sacrifice on our behalf. Or, to coin a phrase, take a bullet for us of his own free will to provide salvation. However we, having free will, need to accept it. I recently re-read the Narnia series from The Magician's Nephew to The Last Battle and still love the series. |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2005-12-05 16:03 |
| #9 Thanks, 2b, and well said, Aris. One of the errors of Christianity was to adopt the body/mind|flesh/spirit dichotomy of Greek Philosophy, and ignored the belief held by its Jewish founders that the human being was a fusion of body and spirit. This led to all kinds of messes and confusions that Christianity still suffers, and pays for, to this day. |
| Posted by: Ptah 2005-12-05 15:55 |
| #8 The positive nature of the Narnia books can be largely summarized by the following passage: "Not because he and I are one, but because we are opposite, I take to me the services thou hast done to him. For I and he are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him. Therefore if any man swear by Tash and keep his oath for the oath's sake, it is by me that he has truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him. And if any man do a cruelty in my name, then, though he says the name Aslan, it is Tash whom he serves and by Tash his deed is accepted." Too many worshippers of Tashlan nowadays. Too many people who think they can violate every aspect of their religion, advocate murder, torture, even genocide, as long as they do it in good Jesus' name. Most of the rest of the positive aspects of the Narnia books can be summarized in the way that Aslan is pretty much the most approachable guy around. He can be hugged, you can put your hands in his fur, he's amused with jokes and can play little jokes of his own. (Too many people think deities, even benevolent ones, need have the personality attitudes that'd characterize an antisocial psychopath if present in a human. Even books I largely liked like "The Once and Future King" seemed to think that angelic-ness would by necessity mean an unfriendly, inhuman, arrogant behaviour). But the approachability of Aslan serves as a validation of the world and human nature as fundamentally good. An affirmation and NOT condemnation of the World. Even when the protagonists essentially reach heaven in The Last Battle, some of the first and most immediate pleasures they discover are physical joy: ability to run forever without getting tired, ability to see as far and clearly as you wish... (Such physical joys in drink/food/dance can also be seen in the mini-resurrection of Narnia in "Prince Caspian" -- once again that's a very positive elements of the books.) |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2005-12-05 15:19 |
| #7 Agree, Mike, it must be good to get her head to spin and spew vomit like this. Ptah..well said. I have a prediction that the left is going to find religion. Nobody needs it more than they do. The only problem is that I suspect that they will become the kind of religious people that made us all think that Christians were the ultimate hypocrites. I suspect that they will embrace religion for all of the good things that the fellowship provides, yet continue to blame Israel, blame George Bush, blame those who support the Boy Scouts...etc. Ah well, I guess we all grow up to become our parents. Besides, aybe if we can get them into the pews some of them might actually experience the Grace that is the basis of Christianity. |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-12-05 15:05 |
| #6 Hear, hear, all! While I read these books when I was younger, I completely enjoyed them. And, while I was a Christian believer at the time of reading (and still am), I completely missed the "religious" side of Lewis' work. I fell in love with the characters themselves and the whole good vs. evil plot. It was only later that I came to see the almost pure genius Lewis' had. What amazes me about his writing, is how his more "religious" books (especially Mere Christianity) are VERY HARD reading, while he explains the same Christ on a child's level through the Narnia series. I read a good portion of Mere Christianity, and while I understood it, it made my head hurt to read it b/c I had to focus so much on what he was saying to understand it. Pure genius. |
| Posted by: BA 2005-12-05 11:11 |
| #5 After reading Toynbee's denunciation, there's only one thing to do. I am so taking my kids to this movie. Opening night. |
| Posted by: Mike 2005-12-05 09:57 |
| #4 The irony is that Lewis was always tender-hearted about the Last Judgement. Comments like Toynbee's would only confirm him in his understanding of God's Justice |
| Posted by: Ernest Brown 2005-12-05 09:57 |
| #3 This prune's understanding falls way short of what Jesus did for Mankind on the Cross: he risked being held in hell for all the sins that would be put on him by our confession of faith in him. His resurrection proved that no man can sin so much that he cannot be forgiven, because no man can sin as much as himself and another man. We (and Edmund) would have cause for guilt if Jesus (Aslan) was not raised from the dead. The resurrection enables Jesus (Aslan) to say to the offender "you are forgiven." Jesus made extra sure that Peter knew (and all the disciples as well) that he, Peter, was forgiven. And while I dispute sympathetic revisions of Judas, I maintain that he, too, would have been forgiven and become a terrific disciple if he had not, by his own hand, put himself beyond confession and forgiveness. Remember, the Left desires a monopoly on guilt, with their forgiveness conditioned on good works done on THEIR terms and judged on THEIR terms. Stop and think how many things are done in this country as a form of worldly "atonement" for sins done in the past that we are somehow guilty of, because the Left has a notion of inheritable guilt that serves their purpose and has the illusion of legitimacy. A forgiveness and restoration freely given by an authority greater than themselves is a severe blow to their extortion schemes, which, of course, is why they denounce Christians, who proclaim true forgiveness without cost and without price, more hysterically than terrorising Islamists. In this, they see the "near threat" as greater than the "far threat". |
| Posted by: Ptah 2005-12-05 08:55 |
| #2 Your right,a snide bitch she is.I was in my mid 20's when I read the books and ejoyed them very much. |
| Posted by: raptor 2005-12-05 07:19 |
| #1 "Of all the elements of Christianity, the most repugnant is the notion of the Christ who took our sins upon himself and sacrificed his body in agony to save our souls. Did we ask him to? Poor child Edmund, to blame for everything, must bear the full weight of a guilt only Christians know how to inflict, with a twisted knife to the heart" What a snide hateful bitch this woman is. |
| Posted by: Oldspook 2005-12-05 01:08 |