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Israel-Palestine-Jordan

'Will to Truth' on peace and Paleostine

2005-12-01

Our boy Brad at 'Will to Truth' opines on the difference between 'shalom' and 'peace'. While he may understand semantics, he's got a problem with the big picture. I gently try to correct him in the comments, but I don't know if he'll accept my comment. So I provide it here:
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There is no Paleostinian 'right of return'.

There is propaganda about that. There is a claim advanced by Paleostinians. But there is no 'right of return'.

Arabs living in 1948 in what is now Israel had a choice to make: stay put and live in a Jewish state, or leave and hope to return to live in an Arab state. In 1948 they weren't hoping to live in 'Palestine', because there was no such thing. There was TransJordan; Gaza was a part of Egypt. The neighboring Arab states that invaded the UN mandate in 1948 weren't planning to establish 'Palestine', they were planning to rip off chunks of real estate for themselves. Had they succeeded, the Paleostinians today would be Egyptians, Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese.

But the Arabs living in the Mandate had a problem: the Arab states failed. Spectacularly (as is usual for Arab states when they go to war). Some Arabs hit the road because they didn't want to live with the evil Jews, some were encouraged by propaganda from the neighboring Arab states that asked them to get out of the way so that the Arab armies could crush the Jews, after which they'd move back. That didn't happen.

Indeed, 'Palestine' as a national concept didn't come into existence until the early 1960s, and as an idea of a specific patch of land didn't come about until after the Six-Day War of 1967 -- you know, when the Arabs lost more land to the Jews.

So now it's almost 60 years later. A boy of 15 in 1948 is today an old man. And boys of 15, and men and women of 30 today, weren't around in 1948. To what, exactly, are they supposed to return? Palestine? There is and was no such thing. The land is now Israel, and as you may have noticed, the Israelis have spent the last 60 years building a country.

And they aren't about to hand it over.

And since they have an army and an air force, the Arabs -- be it the 'Palestinians' or the neighboring Arab states -- aren't likely to force the Israelis to hand it over.

That's reality. Now then, the Paleostinians have three choices (as I humbly see it) -- 1) they can move to other Arab countries and assimilate (ask the Kuwaitis how well that was working in 1990). 2) they can work to turn the West Bank and Gaza into a Palestinian state of some kind, or 3) they can continue to live in squalor in UN refugee camps (in which there are few, if any, refugees from 1948, thanks to Father Time).

But there is no 'right of return', because the Israelis can't and won't recognize it. Ever. Never. To do so is the death of Israel, and the Israelis know it.

So do the Arab states.

And, frankly, so do Westerners, such as yourself, who advocate it.

Which is what you want. The death of Israel. Just come out and say it, 'k?

Steve White
Moderator, Rantburg

Posted by:Steve White

#5 There is no such thing as a "Will to Truth." Truth exists independent of the will of the individual. Of course this flies in the face of Post-Modern dogma where everyone gets to have his personal truth. Ask the dead riders on the Jerusalem bus about truth. Ask St. Rachel Pancake. Wishing does not make it so.

Meaningful discussion can only occur when both parties admit that there is truth, and then honestly seek to find it. This is what is so frustrating about today's Left - there is no truth outside of their fevered imaginations.

Posted by: SR-71 2005-12-01 20:37

#4 Peace is the search for harmony between people. Peace is all about reconciliation.â

Why do we have to suffer such fools as Brad? Look how he paints a little smiley face and tries to come up with cute slogans that make no sense, but gives him a sense of satisfaction as meaningful as putting the little pink bows on the manes of his Pretty Pony collection. Oooooh...prtty. ..all the little children clap and have cake.

Why is it that the left thinks all the world's conflicts can be solved if they can just word the conflict in such a manner as to make everyone happy. The only way Osama will find peace in your presence is to chop off your infidel head. No amount of poetry that you write will cause him to jump up and say "you're right! I never thought of it like that! Give me a hug, Will of Truth!

You are a naive little wisp of the willow, so much so, it's almost cute. If Western Civilization and all of the freedoms that we take for granted weren't at risk, your pretty pony parade would be a real kick. Don't know how old you are, but as they say, "you can't be 20 on Sugar Mountain. Time to grow up and get real.

Posted by: 2b 2005-12-01 20:05

#3 Another little mentioned fact was that many Palestinians were compensated for their patch of sand in 1948, by the Rockefellers and others. It was the Jewish settlers' blood and sweat equity that transformed the land and made it profitable. The Palestinians sold their birthright, just as Esau did.

Posted by: Danielle 2005-12-01 16:42

#2 That said (and maybe I'm too kind), but I believe that "willtotruth" doesn't truly wish the destruction of Israel--instead I think his knowledge of what REALLY occurred is limited and cluttered by the lies that have become accepted as truth during the last couple of decades.

Distinction without difference. Ignorance does not excuse malice.

Posted by: Robert Crawford 2005-12-01 15:53

#1 Your post does an excellent job of reciting a history that many on the left have attempted to white wash.

That said (and maybe I'm too kind), but I believe that "willtotruth" doesn't truly wish the destruction of Israel--instead I think his knowledge of what REALLY occurred is limited and cluttered by the lies that have become accepted as truth during the last couple of decades.

In discussions with his type, one short-cut to bringing them up to speed I've found is to ask questions of them, such as "What was the name of the *Palestinian* ruler at the time that the Jews 'stole' land from the Palestinians?" Even though such a question seems shocking simple, you'd be surprised at the number of Americans that have no idea that "Palestine" never existed as a sovereign entity, and as a result had no "king", no "ruler", no army, no weaponry, etc. Where you take them from there is up to you, but you've opened the door for their education.

Posted by: Crusader 2005-12-01 15:09

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