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| Europe | ||
| Reflections of Nuit de Noir (Black Night) | ||
| 2005-11-09 | ||
Today Nuit Noire (Black Night) will be released at a select number of French cinemas. The controversial film, made by one of France's most respected directors, reconstructs the events of the night of 17 October 1961, when a protest against French policy in Algeria, then a colony on the brink of independence, sparked a huge police operation. Hundreds of demonstrators were killed or injured but there was no official acknowledgement at the time - or for decades afterwards.
On October 17, 1961, thousands of Algerian immigrants living in Paris took to the streets in support of the national liberation struggle being waged in Algeria against France by the FLN (Front Libération National - National Liberation Front). In response, the Paris police department violently broke up the demonstations, as well as took other severe actions related to the demonstrations. While the police originally claimed that only three deaths resulted from the conflict, historians estimate that between 32 and 200 demonstrators died. With almost no media coverage at the time, the events surrounding the massacre, as well as the death toll, were almost unknown both in France and worldwide for decades. For this reason, there is no generally-used name to designate these events. | ||
| Posted by:Steve |
| #22 That stroke in Aug must have took most of 'Shiraq's' brain anonymous5089 |
| Posted by: FlameBait 2005-11-09 22:28 |
| #21 Yup, that's the one, didn't found it typing the url (I'm a big gogol user, though, thanks to the built-in maxthon search bar), thanks! Caution! Graphic pictures of war victims (see "CRIMES CONTRE L'HUMANITE MASSACRES ET TORTURES") : http://anneedelalgerie.free.fr/ By the way, JFM, did you see that http://www.elmoudjahid.com/stories.php?story=05/10/31/1360434? This is incredible! Shiraq has sent a message of congratulation to Bouteflika at the occasion of the anniversary of the beginning of the Algeria (terrorist) war! This guy truly has lost it, or is truly hates France. |
| Posted by: anonymous5089 2005-11-09 18:06 |
| #20 It is anneedelalgerie.free.fr Google is your friend. I am a very slow typer and that is why I asked someone else to give a summarized translation of the events at Oran for the education of non-french speakers at Rantburg. |
| Posted by: JFM 2005-11-09 17:33 |
| #19 JFM : I gave the http://oran1962.free.fr/ link in a precedent comment. I'm not a pied noir, but theses stories and testimonies really make me sad and disgusted, like the ones in the others websites. There was a website (IIRC something like anneedelalgerie.com/net/org) which hosted *horrific* pictures of victims of the fln, that would have made a perfect "educational" tool to put things into context for non french-speakers, but I can't find it anymore. |
| Posted by: anonymous5089 2005-11-09 17:13 |
| #18 In fact it was not hundreds of demonstrators killed but 17 sure and 13 others probable. We have to account for the context: every week a couple policemen were being killed or wounded in France proper and this didn't make them Algerian-friendly. And police found itself heavily outnumbered by demonstrators (illegal demonstration by the way): 1 against twenty ie a situation where police officers could find themselves in danger. Of course not a word abnout the atrocious methods who had allowed the FLN to take control of the Algerian population. Now let's take a look about what happenned at Setif, during VE day (1945). A demonstration pro-independency and suddenly a shot is heard and a young boy carrying a banner drops dead. There was a horrible pogrom were hundreds of Europeans were raped, tortured and killed in the most sadistic way. Then in retaliation the French local units (mostly composed of Sub-saharians) and armed French civilians killed some 5,000 to 10,000 native (with communists being as vengeful as the others: USSR had still not allied with panarabism/islamism). The interesting thing is that the Berberic web sites dispute the official version of a French comissar having shot the boy with his pistol at a distance of many tens of yards. Instead they point to a immam's confessions telling: "For preserving Islam it was necessary to put a river of blood between the French and us, people were becoming friends of the French". I also suugest that if someoen can read French, he visits http://oran1962.free.fr/ and posts a summary of the events at Oran in 1962. A demonstration, some shots are heard and then there is a gigantic anti-European pogrom. But the demonstrators had hidden weapons upon them and the masscres started simultaneously in all the (large) city: it was premeditated just like in Setif, 1945 |
| Posted by: JFM 2005-11-09 16:49 |
| #17 I agree with what you said, but can you imagine them teaching such in a school in England or France these days? I could be wrong but I have trouble picturing that. |
| Posted by: rjschwarz 2005-11-09 16:20 |
| #16 I think a lot of Europeans (French and English) are going to be doing some serious reevaluating their own history and misplaced guilt over their empires. Well to begin with: what motivated the race to African colonization at the end of XIXth century? Protecting blacks against Muslim slave traders. That is how it was sold to public opinions and the fact that perhaps the motives of politicians and businessmenwere not that pure it is not a reason to not respect the Jean Dupont or John Smith who believed it was for the good of Blacks and about white man's burden to bring them to civilization 2) It was colonization who built a minimum infrastructures, drastically reduced mortality from diseases, ended heinous practices like canibalism, huamn sacrifice (that is for Mexico) and wife burning (that is for India), introduced a minimum of technology so they aren't force to live in stone age. Quite simply there would be a LOT less Africans without colonization. And when a leftist "fils a papa" tells you: "They don't need that, they were much better in their societies" answer them: "They were so happy to lose half their children in their first year of life" |
| Posted by: JFM 2005-11-09 16:08 |
| #15 I think a lot of Europeans (French and English) are going to be doing some serious reevaluating their own history and misplaced guilt over their empires. Sometimes the locals really aren't spiritually pure folk in touch with the land and at peace with the world. Sometimes they are just bat-shit crazy. |
| Posted by: rjschwarz 2005-11-09 14:10 |
| #14 We will conquer you with the bellies of our women." Please Tell me doctor, why do I keep seeing scenes from Jean-Pierre Jeunet's Alien Resurrection when I see that line? |
| Posted by: Besoeker 2005-11-09 14:02 |
| #13 Well, the first thing I thought was . . .the river--now that's a good idea! Heave the rioters in! " . . .we've got the demographical bomb. We will conquer you with the bellies of our women." Moslem "communities" have "sprung up" all over the globe in non-Moslem countries. Ever wonder why? |
| Posted by: ex-lib 2005-11-09 13:49 |
| #12 I'll bet JFM has some rather strong feelings about this.... JFM? |
| Posted by: Shipman 2005-11-09 12:08 |
| #11 Rant on bro! I for one enjoyed it. |
| Posted by: Secret Master 2005-11-09 11:47 |
| #10 I don't deserve it I don't know about that. |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-11-09 10:39 |
| #9 2b : Anyway - please know we are wishing the best for you. Thanks!... But you're waaayyy too kind; I have a very sheltered, easy life, I don't deserve it. |
| Posted by: anonymous5089 2005-11-09 10:32 |
| #8 and..for all you pc minders out there - my comment about Japanese internment was not attempting to imply that we should intern all Muslims ...I'm just saying that 911 caused us all to see the Japanese internment in a different light. |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-11-09 10:31 |
| #7 5089 - why are you apologizing for not having a good memory? Hey, maybe I'm a little biased but I've never really seen much of a connection between the ability to recall facts and the ability to understand what those facts mean ....though it is certainly impressive when individuals can do both. We all have our share of the RFSPs which is what these people are. As for Nuit Noire - just another expression of angst from the self-righteous drum bangers on the left. Don't expect any movies about White Knights where a John Wayne comes in and restores a little western style justice so that ordinary good folk can go about living their ordinary lives in peace and democracy, sans the gang rapes, arsons and murders - because it isn't chic. You had a great rant - and though I've done my share of harping on the French - please know that I understand that most real French people are just being held hostage to a government over run by the RFSP. It could have happened here in the US - but we just barely managed to beat them back in the last two elections. On the bright side, I think the timing of the movie - Black Night - may eventually work out in your favor. Arnold Schwarzneger (sp?) once said that the thing that professional body builders feared most during competition, was peaking too soon. It may be that the release of this movie causes the RFSP to peak too soon. Instead of wringing their hands and asking where they can send checks to relieve their guilt, everyone but the RFSP, will understand WHY the massacre (or whatever) happened. Americans always felt really bad about internment of the Japanese in WWII- but since 9/11 we understand why they did it. Anyway - please know we are wishing the best for you. |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-11-09 10:24 |
| #6 anonymous5089, Don't apologize again. Those days are dead and past. It's time to physically and mentally toughen up, learn to fight, and go on the offensive. The deluge (what happened the past 2 weeks is nothing) is comming to France and it's up to you and your neighbors to rise to her defense. |
| Posted by: ed 2005-11-09 09:36 |
| #5 +++RANT MODE ON+++ BULLSHIT!!! I'm a smuck witth no real historical knowledge, but I can assure you this is pure bullshit. I clearly remember reading an interesting article I of course didn't memorize because I suck, but IIRC the main proponent of the "hundred of deaths/cadavers thrown in the Seine" theory has been a communist (who else) and a North Korea apologist. You've got to understand this whole idea of victimization of the fellaghas is a marxist one, since the french communist party, which has been a party of traitors (and I do mean by their *actions*, not just by their words) in every war since 1939, was supporting the butchers of the algerian fln. This movie is produced by Canal +, the bobo/lefists private cable channel by excellence, home of the "Guignols de l'info" puppetshow which promotes 9/11 conspiracy theories (since right after the attacks), which was gleefully making fun of the USA while the towers were still smoldering, and is the single most anti-american show on the french tv (that's quite to say). Its sole goal is to further push this marxist narrative of the Algeria war : french = bad colonizers, pooor, pooor algerian = victims (the same narrative that has been relentlessly pushed bt gfrench national education, which is a tool of the marxist). Kinda like the israelo-arab war, or the "antiracist" view of french society... quite a coincidence, isn't it? The number of deaths during that event is quite discussed, and the "hundred of death" is really the extreme one, and as I said pushed by marxists. *Dozens* of french cops were murdered by algerian terrorists on french soil in the preceeding months, and this demonstration was a demonstration of mostly foreigners taking the street in favor of a ruthless and duplicious ennemy whoses "soldiers" raped, tortured, mutilated,... children, women, civilians, draftees,... in an orgy of death absolutely comparable to the 90's algerian islamists (wiping out whole hamlets by slaughtering them with blades, impaling babies, gangraping 12 years girl, decapitating them and putting their head between their thighs, skinning people alive,... I'm not making this up)... and this demonstration was not authorized anyway! How would have the USA reacted in such a case, an illegal demonstration of vietnameses communists in Washington in the middle of a viet cong terror wave especially targeting cops on US soil? If you want to play the french-bashing game, and assume french were horrible, nazi-like armed occupiers fighting against "freedom fighters", ok, I have no problem with it. But you're wrong. I'm really sorry I'm not more well educated or more well read. JFM really could set this straight, he's got the background and the brain. Again, the fln wasn't just an independence mvt, it was an arabo-islamism identitary mvt which when in power wiped out the non arab and non muslim characteristics of Algeria (a country built from scratch by France, by the way, french colonization had its brutal moments, to be sure, but it was a *positive* force for Algeria, dammit!), with the addition of a marxist economical structures. They were beaten by the french army! I've just read reactions to the emergency state by "french" algerian muslims who say this is a "revenge for France being beaten by Algeria". This is false! The algerian fln was wiped out by a very successful counter-insurgency war, and the fln who took power after France GAVE them Algeria were tunisian IIRC... and then they proceeded to slaughter in abominable fashion 150 000-20 000 unarmed harkis and pieds noirs despite their engagement, with french army doing strictly nothing (well, that not quite true... before that the gaullist power had the army shoots on unarmed french demonstraters, and french aviation bombs french insurgents...). This was a very dirty, very bloody war, true, fought with much courage by the french army, despite the racist anglosaxon stereotypes (french paratroopers were supposedly idolized by other armed forces in the 60-70's, because of their efficiency during this war)... but then again the ennemy was *monstrous*, and I might add the USa too played dirty during the Viet Nam war (Phoenix operation, 20 000 illegal assassiantion which effectively wiped out the communist networks in south viet Nam). To finish this long rant, Phil_b is quite true. To me, Algeria war never has truly ended, it has only moved from Algeria to war. "French Algeria" militants used to say that if you didn't keep Algeria french, in the long term you'd have algerian France. That's exactly what's happening. De Gaulle surrendered Algeria because he thought the demographics were against France, but in the same time he sets the french Arab Policy(tm) (which already had a looong history, true) which led to Eurabia. Algeria still is very hostile to France, and dreams of revenge (that's why IMHO they're building their atom bomb, to neutralize french nuclear power). As Boumedienne said something like : "some day, millions of people from the South will go to the North; and they won't go there as friends but as conquerors. You may have the atom bomb, we've got the demographical bomb. We will conquier you with the bellies of our women". That's the whole idea. Some links in french (can't find my links with the horrible pictures of atrocities by the fln, too bad). http://www.algerie-francaise.org/cimetiere/index.shtml http://oran1962.free.fr/ http://www.piedsnoirs-aujourdhui.com/documents.html +++RANT MODE OFF+++ Ps : I hit the tip jar a while back, I'll hit it again in some time, for the bandwith, you know... ;-) |
| Posted by: anonymous5089 2005-11-09 09:08 |
| #4 mac, I'll try and get a copy. Its over 30 years since I read Wolves, but it made an impression on me and I think a lot of what we see today was cast in Algeria. |
| Posted by: phil_b 2005-11-09 06:38 |
| #3 Discovery Channel has a couple of good documentories,to. |
| Posted by: raptor 2005-11-09 06:36 |
| #2 PhilB, "Wolves" is good. Alastair Horne's "A Savage War of Peace" is better. |
| Posted by: mac 2005-11-09 06:16 |
| #1 For background on the war in Algeria, I recommend Wolves in the City. It gives a good perspective on the French governments policy change towards appeasing arabs and also how a few dozen dead in Paris was only a minor footnote to the slaughter in Algeria. |
| Posted by: phil_b 2005-11-09 00:25 |