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| Europe |
| Moslem Soldiers in European Armies |
| 2005-10-20 |
| October 20, 2005: Many NATO countries have sent peacekeepers to Afghanistan, but have not been able to use their Moslem soldiers as well as they thought they could. Itâs not that NATO thought they would have a lot of linguists, as very few of their Moslem troops came from Afghanistan. In fact, most of the Moslem troops in NATO armies, were born in Europe (it was usually their parents who emigrated, most commonly from Turkey or North Africa). But it was believed that, as Moslems, they would have a better rapport with the Afghans. That did not happen. Part of the problem is that Afghans, in general, are not crazy about foreigners, no matter what their religion. They are particularly hostile to Turks and Arabs. The former, because there is a Turkish minority in Afghanistan that has long been seen as a threat to the Indo-European tribes (the Pushtuns and Tajiks) who have traditionally dominated the area. Arabs are disliked because they comprised most of the al Qaeda personnel in Afghanistan. Those al Qaeda âtroopsâ eventually became enforcers for the Taliban, using force to encourage compliance with unpopular Taliban directives. What NATO commanders did discover about their Moslem troops was not very encouraging. Most of these young Moslems joined the military just for the money. They wanted to get a job, and it is very hard for immigrants, or the children of immigrants, to get jobs in Europe. The military was always looking for volunteers, but most young guys saw being in uniform as no fun at all. So many Moslems were accepted, if not welcomed. Few of the NCOs, and hardly any officers in European armies are from emigrant families. This is in sharp contrast to the United States, where there are many Moslem NCOs and officers in the military, and the commander of all U.S. troops in the Middle East and Afghanistan is an Arab Christian. In Europe, Moslems were held in low esteem even before 911. Since then, fear of terrorists has translated into even more disdain for Moslems. This carries over into the military, where officers and NCOs often distrust their Moslem troops, or simply show disdain for them. Senior commanders recognize that they have a problem with Moslem troops, and itâs not the fault of the Moslems. But changing attitudes among officers and NCOs will not be easy, nor will it happen quickly. |
| Posted by:Steve |
| #10 anonymous5089, you are a darling. And very silly about yourself, but very informative for us. Keep bringing us good information from your own observations, and also from the French-language websites that I can't read. Mercy buckets! (And trust .com. about the smut thingy -- I hear he knows whereof he speaks!) |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2005-10-20 22:30 |
| #9 a5089 - If I had you email addy I could help you with the smut thingy. :) |
| Posted by: .com 2005-10-20 17:25 |
| #8 Thanx, but this kind of nickname is relatively common among the pro-zionist, pro-Us, right wing french islamophobic websites I waste my time with (instead of wisely looking for smut). I'm only an unimaginative copycat. See for example the excellent hard-hitting conservative jewish http://balagan.blog-city.com/, a blog which has developped a whole linguo reminiscent of W. 's "Merde In France" : chirakailles, lepénistes de gauche, baisseurs de sarouel, torchonistes, Collaboration, droitsdelhommistes arabes, europédales,... very funny. He calls Chirac "Chirak" (Iraq is spelled Irak for us froggie), or arabizes it in "Yaouled ben Shirak", "Yacob ben Shirak", which is offensive but does justice to the character. |
| Posted by: anonymous5089 2005-10-20 17:21 |
| #7 Anon5089: I like your "Shiraq" - a nice touch. |
| Posted by: jolly roger 2005-10-20 16:48 |
#6 But it was believed that, as Moslems, they would have a better rapport with the Afghans.Ah, yes - the old Euro/colonial belief that "all wogs are the same" rears its ugly little head. In Europe, Moslems were held in low esteem even before 911.But their esteem soared in Phrance >:-( |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2005-10-20 14:31 |
| #5 Snump - I personally know (devout, practicing) Muslims who I quite literally trust with my life. Sorry you don't. |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2005-10-20 14:27 |
| #4 Snump, are we supposed to include Ambassador Khalilzad in that number? Or most of our allies in Afghanistan and Iraq? |
| Posted by: Phil 2005-10-20 14:11 |
| #3 'Moslem Soldiers in European Armies' hope there arnt to many in the British Army/Battlefield Social Workers. As for the Fwench how long before they create an Islamic Martyer Brigade like Iran? |
| Posted by: Shep UK 2005-10-20 12:14 |
| #2 Very simple rule: never trust a Muslim. Once you adopt this one simple rule, life gets easier. |
| Posted by: Snump Phomomp6162 2005-10-20 10:51 |
| #1 20% of french army is now muslim, with percentage as high as 30-40% in some frontline units, say in paratroopers and the likes. I do not have the numbers in head, coz I'm a failure, but IIRC internal survey found that only one in ten young muslim-born men would fight for France (you read that correctly), and that many would not fight 'their country' (their country being here the country of their parents or grand parents, but can be extended as any muslim country). This leads to serious soul-searching, degraded morale, and deep cohesion problems. That concerns less elite units, which remain more homogenous... as far as I can tell, morale in the french army is not good since Shiraq in his genious decided to professionalize it. Basically, the transition has been very painful, and anyway, it is bankrupt, a large part of the gear is not usable due to lack of money (again i've seen the numbers in some internal mags, and that's a catastrophy, with ratios like 30%, 50%,...). Of course, you'll say that France itself is bankrupt (gvt has to borrow 139 billions of euros just to balance its budget this year, debt is now 1200 billions of euros, and you can add 1000+ from various social budgets), and you'd be right. France only tries to retain its highly-trained and very effective "expeditionary corp" traditionally used in Africa (no crap here, french soldiers in that kind of units, marines and foreign legion, are very good at what they do). But there are signs the whole thing is falling apart; October 17, Michèle Alliot-Marie, the Shiraq groupie and minister of defense, has suspended three high-ranking officers, including one general, from the Ivory Coast "Licorne" operation, over the death of a paramilitary commander. I've read some "conspiracy theory" this could be part of a move to weaken Dominique Galouzeau "de Villepin" (who's a man), due to infighting in the Shiraq side, to blame the real IC quagmire on him. The entry of disaffected muslim "youths" in the french army is not a bug, it's a feature. There is a whole "affirmation action" drive in the recruitment of the army specially geared toward them, despite all the disciplinary problems they pose (you don't recruti what's basically thousands of yobs without such problems), much to the chagrin of the army brass. |
| Posted by: anonymous5089 2005-10-20 09:39 |