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| Syria-Lebanon-Iran |
| Russians help Iran with missile threat to Europe |
| 2005-10-16 |
| Yup. But go ahead, Europe ... keep on cultivating Putin to offset the US. Bow to the mullahs, too ... it might work long enough to let you retire on your fat state pensions if you can allow enough immigrants in to keep the economy going. Former members of the Russian military have been secretly helping Iran to acquire technology needed to produce missiles capable of striking European capitals. The Russians are acting as go-betweens with North Korea as part of a multi-million pound deal they negotiated between Teheran and Pyongyang in 2003. It has enabled Teheran to receive regular clandestine shipments of top secret missile technology, believed to be channelled through Russia. Western intelligence officials believe that the technology will enable Iran to complete development of a missile with a range of 2,200 miles, capable of hitting much of Europe. It is designed to carry a 1.2-ton payload, sufficient for a basic nuclear device. The revelation raises the stakes in the confrontation between Iran's Islamic regime and the West - led by the United States and European countries including Britain. Okay, I'll buy Britain - but the rest of Europe? Give me a break. Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of state, clashed with Russian officials over Iran's nuclear programme during a visit to Moscow yesterday, saying that Teheran must fulfil its obligations under the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty. She was later expected to urge President Vladimir Putin to back a referral of Iran to the United Nations Security Council. A senior American official said Iran's programme was "sophisticated and getting larger and more accurate. They have had very much in mind the payload needed to carry a nuclear weapon. "I think Putin knows what the Iranians are doing." Iran is believed to be hiding its weapons development behind its nuclear power programme, for which it receives Russian support, and has refused to suspend uranium enrichment or to allow full UN inspections. John Bolton, the US ambassador to the UN, told BBC2's Newsnight that Iran was "determined to get nuclear weapons deliverable on ballistic missiles it can then use to intimidate not only its own region but possibly to supply to terrorists". Iran's longest-range missile is the Shahab 3, which, with an 800-mile range, could hit Israel. The North Korean deal will allow the Iranian missile to reach targets far into Europe - including Rome, Berlin, and much of France. North Korea has developed a missile, the Taepo Dong 2, that could reach America's west coast, based on the submarine-launched Soviet SSN6. Modifications allow it to be fired from a land-based transporter and this technology is being smuggled to Teheran with Russian help. Russians have provided production facilities, diagrams and operating instruction so the missile can be built in Iran. Liquid propellant has been shipped to Iran. Russian specialists have also been sent to Iran to help development of its Shahab 5 missile project, which the Iranians hope to have operational by the end of the decade. The answer is anti-ballistic missile defense. And if the continent doesn't want to play, fine. I'd rather we not lose Europe to the Islamacists but it really isn't in our power to keep them as part of the West if they choose otherwise. |
| Posted by:too true |
| #26 I see your position, but I don't agree. Knowing an adversary is no guarantee of anything - save understanding why they do what they do, which does not always reveal the negotiating path to take - sometimes there isn't one. So, IMHO, the real point is it takes two to tango. Puttyputz is a pluperfect mercenary asshole. No progress is possible without either incentive or threat - and perhaps not even then. I don't think you want to try to "buy" Puttyputz - that is a bottomless / endless black hole. It seems to appeal to our legislative wizards. Hell, it's not their money, so... On the other hand, do you think we can threaten him persuasively / effectively? I don't. It's a hard world and he's a bona-fide KGB whore... I'm just sayin... Personally, I've reached an apocalyptic position - which I am loath to lay out, lol. So many mixed feelings, which I make a point of NOT mistaking for thinking - per Twain's clear warning, regardless of the cold hard logic that indicates certain actions make sense. Very very few people are willing to tolerate them - yet. I guess there's a sick calculus underpinning most people's view of politics and crises. In the current situation, it's clear that the dead Americans count isn't sufficient for the civilized folks to get over themselves. Ain't that a kick in the head? |
| Posted by: .com 2005-10-16 18:02 |
| #25 Pappy, my comments about Ritter were not about his guilt or innocence. My point was if your going to accuse somebody of something as serious as being a sex offender you should have the balls to attatch your name to your accusations. The Ritter saga is loaded with "condition of anonymity". |
| Posted by: DepotGuy 2005-10-16 17:58 |
| #24 Point taken. My comments were made between my last cup o joe and my first and beer. Always a shaky time. Hence the qualifier at the end. I’ll apologize in advance if my next comments sound equally clueless. But here goes. Condolezza rice is an intelligent and gifted woman but in my opinion her performance, thus far, has been sub par. The President elevated her position to the United States’ top diplomatic position as Secretary of State. Who am I to question? Hell, it’s hard to imagine she could be less effective then her predecessor. Granted that position doesn’t make policy, but dammit, they have to sell it. The one area I thought she would excel at is US – Russia relations. After all, I thought that was her area of expertise. And it seems with both the Iran and Syria issues looming, we can ill afford to maintain the status quo. By hook or crook, the US must effectively engage the Russians to resolve the immediate situations. Not looking for perfection here…but show me some results. |
| Posted by: DepotGuy 2005-10-16 17:32 |
| #23 I know is is now a hackneyed expression, but I knida miss the relative clarity of the cold war. They held their mutts, mopes and moonbats in check by fear and muscle, we sorta coalesced the less crazy elements of the West and a few sane independents together using standard of living and actual reason about how the world works. Both sides were convinced the other would pull the trigger (for differing reasons) and a sense of limited conflict without the doomsday ending was accepted. Now with the leash off our side disintegrates into shortsighted self-interest and their side minus the ChiComs (or whatever fascist, kleptocratic, oligarchy-variant they actually are)grows more self-destructive. Ruled by pious maniacs and really ignorant, racist, intolerant people, the moon-worshippers are running the world headlong into disaster, and the Russians try and buy back some chips in the hegemon game while the Chinese, the real enemy, look to mop up after the implosion in 2012 or so....... jeez, i wish all i had to worry about was the Fulda Gap fighting positions or the airhead at Osan Airbase! |
| Posted by: Just About Enough! 2005-10-16 17:07 |
| #22 5839? You're underrated. |
| Posted by: .com 2005-10-16 17:02 |
| #21 sucks, huh, DepotGuy, when you lay yourself open for ridicule and won't acknowledge it? Hey! I'm MAD as hell and I'm not gonna take this anymore . . . Oh, that's not me your talkin' about. Never mind! |
| Posted by: AlmostStupid5839 2005-10-16 16:50 |
| #20 sucks, huh, DepotGuy, when you lay yourself open for ridicule and won't acknowledge it? |
| Posted by: Frank G 2005-10-16 16:17 |
| #19 But then it passes and I realize the poster probably hasn't a fucking clue what the role of a cabinet officer is Same poster who thinks Scott Ritter is pure as the driven snow. |
| Posted by: Pappy 2005-10-16 16:15 |
| #18 I'm beginning to think there must be this secret reservoir of perfect people. Kept secret from me, anyway. I thought everyone with honor did what they could and perfection was mythical, though approached at times. Posts like this make me wonder about that - a humbling thought, indeed. But then it passes and I realize the poster probably hasn't a fucking clue what the role of a cabinet officer is - or just enjoys taking a gutless potshot at the underling who must deal with the assignment, no matter how hopeless it may be. |
| Posted by: .com 2005-10-16 15:03 |
| #17 Depot Guy, there's a long line forming to fing out how we'd be better off with Colin "Dolittle" Powell still in that job. |
| Posted by: Sholing Slaique2335 2005-10-16 14:53 |
| #16 WTF? DepotGuy? Pray-tell, define how her shit is un-together. Please, proceed. My pixels are all a-quiver. |
| Posted by: .com 2005-10-16 14:45 |
| #15 So far I'm less then impressed with Condi Rice. To put it crudely....She needs to get her shit together...Now! I'm not sayin...I'm just sayin. |
| Posted by: DepotGuy 2005-10-16 14:31 |
| #14 I think Russia sees Uncle Sam as enemy number one and is arming anyone who looks like he might take the US on, seriously wounding the US while perhaps being destroyed by the US, leaving one less problem for Russia. I suspect Russia would love it if the Iranians nuked us and we annihilated Iran in return. Ditto with China. I'm not sure which they prefer more, because while China is the bigger military threat, Iran is a major problem because it shares a religion with a major proportion (20% and growing, because of higher birth rates) of the Russian Federation. |
| Posted by: Elmenter Snineque1852 2005-10-16 12:08 |
| #13 Folks, this shit only moves the "red line" up a bit faster. Given that Condi paid an unproductive visit to Putty & Co. last Friday, and got no where, we are simply checking off all the boxes. |
| Posted by: Captain America 2005-10-16 12:08 |
| #12 |
| Posted by: Zenster 2005-10-16 11:46 |
| #11 lotp, that can be extended to other countries. Germany sent those who were fed up with being sent around the continent as mercenaries. So they kept the warriors and we got the peaceniks of the 18th and 19th centuries who turned out to be the better warriors when properly motivated (or threatened by resubjugation) in the 20th. Bottom line, whoever came had to struggle, have a dream, optomism and a willingness to change and adapt to new and strange circumstances. The winners in the old country stuck there because they had no initiative, no imagination, no conception that they could be better off. And they aren't. They're the losers now. |
| Posted by: Cheting Angomonter3565 2005-10-16 11:22 |
| #10 I think that there may be another perspective here. The Russians might just think that they can play an advanced version of the Cold War surrogates battle. They might be figuring that they can control their proxies (aka Mad Mullahs) the way they did with the North Vietnamese, Castro, etc. Why might they think this? Perhaps because they see us as wimps that won't crack down hard, whereas they have no inhibitions at all. MMs start getting uppity and they get whacked. Do I think this will work? Nope, but they might. |
| Posted by: AlanC 2005-10-16 10:59 |
| #9 Re: Russia and stupidity - the smart ones emigrated here, like my ancestors, and to Australia. Okay, some emigrated to Canada, it's true, but in the western provinces where moonbats are less welcome. Same reason Scotland, once renowned for their warriors, is now populated by anti-nuke far lefters. |
| Posted by: lotp 2005-10-16 10:41 |
| #8 Sigh, if only I hadn't mispelled "passed", lol! Indeed, I recall the same analyses - we were doomed. Between the fact that every Sov you ever heard of had a PhD or six (from Ideology U?), they would win by numbers at the Fulda Gap - not technology - though they were so "superior", and that there was a looming Mine Shaft Gap, lol, it was all over 'cept for the Fat Lady... |
| Posted by: .com 2005-10-16 10:36 |
| #7 The fucking Russians are not very bright, not very imaginative - unable to "see" what has poassed from local living memory, despite external examples - not very worthy. LOL, pd. Sums things up perfectly. Reminds me of how back in the Cold War, we were going to lose 'cause the Russkies all played chess and had math olympiads and we didn't. It makes you wonder how dumb the pundits and analysts are that they never grasped the reality. |
| Posted by: 11A5S 2005-10-16 10:28 |
| #6 Lol, Ship you're a realcynic - as in realpolitik. The fucking Russians are not very bright, not very imaginative - unable to "see" what has poassed from local living memory, despite external examples - not very worthy. I had great hopes for US-Russian cooperation back in the day. No more. They're self-phucked. Life is hard. It's a lot harder if you're stupid. |
| Posted by: .com 2005-10-16 10:00 |
| #5 The problem is that he's acting like a Russian. The country's full of 'em. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2005-10-16 09:53 |
| #4 Puttyputz has lots of problems? *sniff, wipes tear* Puttyputz, and those behind him, are the problem. I am truly fed up with excuses for what has transpired in Russia when compared with what could be. He's still 100% pure KGB asshole. No ifs, no buts, no BS about it. |
| Posted by: .com 2005-10-16 09:49 |
| #3 Putin has lots of problems, including lack of control over these former military members. Aren't these the same guys that fled Baghdad for the Syrian border only to cause an international incident when the military fired upon them? They also know what happened to the WMD's....Putin wants respect and is in a good position with lots of natural gas and other resources. Perhaps ex-KGB Putin should be cultivated to root out those who are only undermining his credibility. After all, the Russians can take out what they helped install, and they alone have access! |
| Posted by: Danielle 2005-10-16 09:24 |
| #2 Wouldn't Moscow also be in range of this missle? Sounds like Russa is busy digging its own grave too. I hope Putty doesn't think that the Mad Mullah would let them off the hook. |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2005-10-16 09:05 |
| #1 Europe just seems to be determinded to dig its own grave. |
| Posted by: mmurray821 2005-10-16 08:59 |