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Britain
Anglican bishops to apologize for Iraq war, say Iran not a tyranny
2005-09-19
BISHOPS of the Church of England want all Britain’s Christian leaders to get together in public to say sorry for the war in Iraq and its aftermath. The bishops say that the Government is not likely to show remorse so the churches should. They want to organise a major gathering with senior figures from the Muslim community to make a “public act of repentance”. The bishops admit that their suggestion is provocative and bound to attract publicity massive criticism, but insist it is not “a cheap gesture”.
I think eventually, and possibly soon, the Church of England is going to reach its tipping point and just disappear for lack of anyone who gives a rat's patou. They've built up such a stock of lip-wristed warm milk pronouncements that no one possessing a testicle (or preferring the company of people with testicles) is going to be able to take them seriously.
Their renewed condemnation of Britain’s role in Iraq since the 2003 invasion will further widen the rift with Downing Street.
It's fashionable to "question authority." The Church of England, however, is kinda by definition a part of the Establishment™. Since they've ceased fulfilling their function as defined by Henry and Elizabeth, that's still more reason for them to disappear, to be replaced by a puppy which can then be given away.
The proposal for a public apology comes in a new report published today. In the report, the bishops plead for more “understanding” of what motivates terrorists.
It's obvious Their Excellencies don't read Rantburg or any other publication that actually does examine the motivations of terrorists. If they do, the certainly don't apply their findings to the Christian concepts of good and evil.
They criticise Western democracies as “deeply flawed” and accuse the US of dangerous expansionism.
If Western democracies are "deeply flawed," what are Middle Eastern autocracies? What are the differences between the two? Is the flawed system that's subject to control preferable to the degenerate system that's beyond the control of those effected? Time limit is one hour. Turn in your blue books to Miss Fishbreath when completed.
The bishops, who strongly opposed the war in Iraq, want Christian leaders to express their repentance in an “act of truth and reconciliation” for the West’s contribution to the problems in Iraq. The bishops cite as precedents the official statements by the Vatican expressing sorrow for the Christian persecution of the Jewish people throughout the ages, the repentance by the Anglican Church in Japan for its complicity in Japanese aggression during the Second World War and the regret expressed by leaders of the Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa for their theological and political backing of apartheid.
Kind of a perfect wave of warm milk, isn't it? The propensity of Christian holy men to apologize for thing they're not responsible for can be breath-taking. I'm still waiting for the reciprocal mass apologies from the Learned Elders of Islam.
The bishops cite a “long litany” of errors in the West’s handling of Iraq, including its past support for Saddam Hussein, its willingness to sell him weapons and the suffering caused to the Iraqi people by sanctions.
"Past support" for Sammy was actually pretty far in the past, and it wasn't what you'd call a cozy level of support. While there was a certain amount of Western commerce with the Baathists, the great majority of the support his regime received came from the Soviet Union. That's especially true of that willingness to sell him weapons. Such trade as the U.S. engaged in was limited by law to non-military items, the exception being the limited support extended during the war with Iran. The sanctions resulted in suffering for the Iraqis — and not as great suffering as was presented in the course of the propaganda campaign — because of the way Sammy jobbed the Oil for Food program.
However, the bishops acknowledge that it would be “irresponsible” to withdraw British troops in the current chaos, adding that the forces should remain until there is a secure Iraqi regime in place.
Mighty daggone generous of them.
In the report, Countering Terrorism, Power, Violence and Democracy Post 9/11, the bishops acknowledge the impact of the July London bombings.
That establishes them as reasonable men, y'see...
The Bishop of Oxford, the Right Reverend Richard Harries, one of the authors, concedes that all governments have a “proper responsibility” to take the steps necessary to safeguard their citizens. But he says that the steps should not “infringe hard-won civil liberties”.
In other words the gummint should safeguard their citizens unless safeguarding them might result in infringing their liberties, despite the fact that not safeguarding them in the interest of such protection will result in the eventual loss of said liberties. Brilliant. Simply brilliant. Obviously the principle of "pay me now or pay me later" is not a part of post-Christian theology.
Bishop Harries, the Church’s leading apologist for the Christian just-war theory, says: “The Churches have a particular message here based on biblical insights about fear and how playing on the fears of enemies makes for unwise policies.”
I'm not too sure where he got that. Seems to me they spent a lot of time in the Old Testament either striking fear in the hearts of Jebusites and Amalekites and suchlike or having similar fears struck in their own hearts. We might also add that in a war on terrorism — the point of which is to strike fear in the hearts of the inoffensive — a bit of counterstriking might actually be in order as a tactic.
He goes on to argue that to many people, it is not terrorism but American foreign policy and expansionism that constitute “the major threat to peace”.
That's a very fashionable position to take, but fashion doesn't dictate truth. We didn't fly any aircraft into somebody else's buildings. We didn't invade Kuwait. We don't run terror networks. We don't cut people's heads off on the teevee.
He says: “We suggest that the United States, like all major powers in history, does indeed seek to expand its economic, political and military influence and power. What distinguishes it from many other empires in history is its strong sense of moral righteousness. In this there is both sincere conviction and dangerous illusion.”
He's not doing a very convincing job of dispelling the illusion, though. And he doesn't pause for a second to consider the possibility that we're right. The expansion of our economic power is pretty peaceful, his bitch being that McDonalds and KFC and Gap and Madonna are displacing the local couscous or goatmeat shack, and kids wear tee shirts instead of colorful traditional native garb, and they listen to music that's either Western or Western-inspired. That displacement isn't the result of force of arms but of the competition of ideas, and the guardians of the ideas that are being displaced are bitching about it even while their kids kick up the volume on the iPods to drown out the noise. It's that displacement of ideas that's the "root cause" of terrorism, a reaction against new and competing concepts that includes Evangelical Christianity. The Church of England is decidedly not Evangelical, they're incapable of competing with much of anyone in the field of ideas, and as a result they find themselves on the side of the displaced, among the dictators and beturbanned holy men, warlords, oligarchs, and similar riff-raff, trying to enforce their obsolete droits du seigneur.
He is also critical of the power of the so-called Christian Right on Washington’s policies. The bishops question the US sense of “moral righteousness” and criticise the use of biblical texts by some in the US to support a political agenda in the Middle East. The bishops say: “There is no uniquely righteous nation.”
Obviously there's not a uniquely righteous body of holy men, either. But that doesn't mean that it's a useless excercise to attempt to pursue righteousness in the antique Christian sense, nor does it mean that some societies don't come closer to righteousness than others. That could have something to do with why their Lordships the Bishops aren't competetive in the field of ideas anymore, too, since they've obviously stopped looking for the paths of righteousness even as they've retired to the theological bathroom to explore their sexuality.
Drawing up a 13-point schedule of “Christian principles” in response to the terror crisis, they call for states to “understand” the perspective of their terrorist antagonists. “Winning hearts and minds is absolutely fundamental in countering terrorism,” they say.
What if you truly understand the enemy and discover that you hate his principles? What if you discover that the world will be a better place after the enemy's been crushed, his major power centers destroyed, his intellectual guides killed? What if you discover that they're so evil you don't care about their hearts and minds and want to concentrate on killing them? Would Their Excellencies the Bishops recognize Evil if it came up to them and kissed them? Would they recognize it if it tried to kill them? The Lord suggested turning the other cheek, but he had a good idea of how many cheeks he possessed.
States must address the “long-standing grievances” of the terrorists and even, perhaps, offer them economic support.
Why? The "long-standing grievances" of the terrorists are based in the fact that they lost Andalusia, they lost at Lepanto, they lost at the gates of Vienna. Now they're losing the war of ideas. The nations they have controlled have been cultural and economic backwaters, their only international significance having been their irritation factor. If my house is infested with cockroaches, I'm not going to address their grievances and I'm certainly not going to offer them economic support. I'm going to call an exterminator.
They go on to condemn the Western style of democracy, saying that it cannot be imposed on any other country by force. “Democracy as we have it in the West at the moment is deeply flawed and its serious shortcomings need to be addressed,” state the bishops, members of the only unelected house in the Church’s own governing democratic body, the General Synod. Even using the term “war on terrorism” is, like the war on drugs of the 1980s, a piece of “dangerous rhetoric”.
"Dangerous rhetoric" to me is the imam down at the local mosque calling for jihad against his infidels neighbors. I've no doubt that Their Lordships the Bishops would condemn the Western style of democracy, since it doesn't include automatic deferrence to one's betters. Instead, it contains those principles they'd find antithetical: individual liberty, the freedom to choose one's religion or lack thereof, the ability to think for oneself, to change social classes, the possibility of excelling along with the risk of failure. These are ideas that have been banging against the intellectual gates of the Church of England ever since Calvin and Knox and Wesley, to which the church often grudgingly adapted. But once they got the "social justice" pablum served up by Marxists they thought they found a counterargument, which would be guaranteed outcomes of all that nasty striving and thinking and action. Since they still have to compete, and since they've never been really good at defining the concepts of right and wrong even at their peak, they're on the side of the losers, which is where they'll remain.
The 100-page report states: “Religion is now a major player on the public stage of the world in a way that few foresaw two decades ago. We believe that the Churches have an important role to play, not simply in urging the importance and applicability of Christian principles, but in a proper awareness of the role of religion, for good as well as ill, and initiatives it might take towards reconciliation between adversaries.”
My previous point is made: notice they don't suggest competing against their adversaries, notice in fact that they don't even regard the adversaries as their adversaries. They prefer to maintain neutrality, rather like they do with the concept of sin.
The bishops plead for understanding of Iran’s nuclear ambitions. “The public and political rhetoric that Iran is a rogue regime, an outpost of tyranny, is as fallacious as the Iranian description of the US as the Great Satan. Iran’s relationship with Islamic terrorist organisations should not be seen as proof of any al-Qaeda link.”
But it should certainly be seen as a relationship with terrorist organizations, shouldn't it? Or should the fact that Iran is and has been for 30 years a major player in the Wonderful World of Terror be ignored because they are only allied with al-Qaeda tactically?
Posted by:Dan Darling

#30  When will you apologize to Muslims for NOT supporting the overthrow of Saddam?
Posted by: Jafar Talabani, Pres of Iraq   2005-09-19 16:38  

#29  1. Let them go to Najaf, and "apologize" to Ayatollah Sistani for the invasion of Iraq. Let them walk down the streets of Najaf, with signs saying "Sorry for getting rid of Saddam" Whatever happens to them, let them turn the other cheek.

2. IF they make it out of Najaf alive, let them come to Tel Aviv, and discuss with holocaust survivors there, whether their stated apology for the holocaust is consistent with their disregard for the danger of nuclear weapons in the hands of a state pledged to the destruction of Israel, and whether that states funding and support to terrorists who kill Israeli civilians should be considered grounds for considering it a rogue state.
Posted by: liberalhawk   2005-09-19 16:36  

#28  Does the British army still have its traditional baggage of Anglican chaplains?

If so, shouldn't they be rounded up and thrown in the stockade as potential enemy agents?
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy   2005-09-19 16:15  

#27  And another thing...
“act of truth and reconciliation” for the West’s contribution to the problems in Iraq.

I may not remember correctly, but wasn't the Truth and Reconciliation destroyed along with the first Halo?
Posted by: Phil Fraering   2005-09-19 15:15  

#26  I think they are actually aiming at ol' Uncle Saud, AC
Posted by: Secret Master   2005-09-19 14:26  

#25  The only way these ridiculous witch-doctors can get any attention, and maybe some petro-dollars in the collection plate, is to shake their feathers and rattle their gourds at Uncle Sam.
Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy   2005-09-19 13:58  

#24  And they wonder why their churches are filled almost exclusively with older people. It's because they can't hear well.
Posted by: 2b   2005-09-19 13:50  

#23  But we SHOULD put down all our weapons and welcome our Islamic brethren. War is bad and is killing us. If we only fostered understanding, they wouldn't feel like they had to fight us so much. Democracy is failing. We need to follow these brave leaders--

"They want to organise a major gathering with senior figures from the Muslim community to make a “public act of repentance”.

Well, I know I'm going to be there. Hope you will too.
Posted by: Mother Sheehan   2005-09-19 13:21  

#22  I agree with Redneck and remoteman (#18, #19),and oh yes, .com (#3).
Posted by: ex-lib   2005-09-19 13:17  

#21  Dammit, and that was a brand new irony meter.

I stopped buying them about the time I left that denomination. Waste of money at this point.
Posted by: MDiv from an Episcopal seminary   2005-09-19 13:02  

#20   "The bench of bishops should have a proper balance between those who believe in God and those who don't."
Posted by: Bright Pebbles   2005-09-19 12:51  

#19  These idiots are all a bunch of marxists. They, like college professors, operate in a theoretical world, not in the real world. That is why they hate capitalism and democracy. They love the theoretical construct of marxism and really, really think it can work. They refuse to acknowledge the more than 100 million dead that it produced over the past 100 years. What fools, what utter and complete fools. Great comments Dan D.
Posted by: remoteman   2005-09-19 12:08  

#18  This whole article reads to me as .
"Iwanna be in Power(Whine, Whine) "Why isn't anybody listening" (Whine, Whine) I'm supposed to be respected" (Whine, Whine) "You Gotta pay attention" (Whine Whine) "You gotta show respect due to my High Office" (Whine, Whine) "I'm the Real Boss of the world" (Whine, Whine) "What I say Is THE LAW," (really and true, Whine, Whine)
Repeat, Repeat.
Posted by: Redneck Jim   2005-09-19 11:58  

#17  There is certainly a lot of material for a blitz of Institutional Media stories about the folly and menace of the Religious Left.

*crickets*

Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy   2005-09-19 10:47  

#16  Depends on who you ask and how truthful they are Mojo. Heretics or not they tend to be silly and prone to these tourete-like utterances every now and then.
Posted by: MunkarKat   2005-09-19 10:29  

#15  What the hell is an Anglican?

Oh, them. Aren't they heretics or something?
Posted by: mojo   2005-09-19 10:21  

#14  They go on to condemn the Western style of democracy, saying that it cannot be imposed on any other country by force.

Seemed to work in Japan and Germany.
Posted by: Chiger Shineng4673   2005-09-19 10:09  

#13   The bishops say that the Government is not likely to show remorse so the churches should.
Go stand by Saddam's mass graves and talk to me about remorse.
Posted by: SteveS   2005-09-19 10:01  

#12  A preacher once told me that the role of the Church (I write this in an ecumenical sense. I hope that I don't offend anyone.) is to promote Peace, not peace. It is a spiritual mission, not a worldly mission.

Once the Church sent out martyrs and converted the heathen tribes of Eastern and Northern Europe. Now some within it issue reports entitled Countering Terrorism, Power, Violence and Democracy Post 9/11. Countering Democracy? Why not Christianity or morality? After all, who are we to tell anyone else to live their lives.
Posted by: 11A5S   2005-09-19 09:24  

#11  Jim Lehrer has Democrats on every night. You should tune it in for good laughs.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis   2005-09-19 08:45  

#10  No, deport them to 'understanding and moral' Iran. I'm sure the Mad Mullahs will welcome them with open dungeons arms.
Posted by: CrazyFool   2005-09-19 08:45  

#9  Is the Church of England actually a BBC sitcom?
I can't wait for PBS to pick it up.
Posted by: tu3031   2005-09-19 08:42  

#8  right rc. Saying that these people are "Christians" is like saying that Jessie Jackson is a "civil rights activist".

Civil rights and Christianity are about appealing to man's better nature. Scam artists like Jessie and these wack birds are about scamming people out of their money.
Posted by: 2b   2005-09-19 08:31  

#7  They want to organise a major gathering with senior figures from the Muslim community to make a “public act of repentance”.

So these supposed-Christians... do they plan on paying jizya then, or just delaying the inevitable?

Drawing up a 13-point schedule of “Christian principles” in response to the terror crisis, they call for states to “understand” the perspective of their terrorist antagonists.

So these supposed holy men are lecturing us on when and why it's justified to kill thousands of innocents in the name of God? They're no longer Christians, as far as I can tell; they've become mullahs! At the least, they're just leftist politicians in funny robes.
Posted by: Robert Crawford   2005-09-19 07:28  

#6  So the Anglican response to the question "What would Jesus do?" is "Embrace moral relativism!" it seems. Another milestone in the evolution of Christian theology. Soon to be announced - replacing the communion with the sympathetic head tilt.
Posted by: ryuge   2005-09-19 03:24  

#5  Well that pretty much seals the deal on my turning my back on “Christianity” You left wing and right wing religious fools ofd the Christian sects can get your asses killed. I will have none of it.

Whatever spiritual needs I have will be met in an entirely different fashion. I don't care if they burn down every last Church and Temple upon the planet. Your on your own with that if it's a problem for you. Judging by this it's not. Enjoy your Dhimmi lives.

Posted by: Sock Puppet O´ Doom   2005-09-19 02:26  

#4  Some people are too stupid to live. Too bad these bishops will take a lot of Britons to hell, sorry Anglicans bishops don't seem to believe much religious doctrine at all over the cliff with them.
Posted by: ed   2005-09-19 01:06  

#3  Deport them, too. Where, you might reasonably ask? I propose Atlantis. That's most likely where they originated, where they spend most of their waking time - in the metaphorical and metaphysical sense, and really want to be, anyway. With complimentary concrete ankle weights, of course.
Posted by: .com   2005-09-19 00:49  

#2  The bishops question the US sense of "moral righteousness"...

Dammit, and that was a brand new irony meter.
Posted by: Angie Schultz   2005-09-19 00:45  

#1  
He is also critical of the power of the so-called Christian Right on Washington’s policies. The bishops question the US sense of “moral righteousness” and criticise the use of biblical texts by some in the US to support a political agenda in the Middle East. The bishops say: “There is no uniquely righteous nation.”


I would suggest that these churchmen are reversing cause and effect. I do not think we in the US simply believe, as they are accusing, that we have the right to do what we want because we're righteous, but rather that we're doing what we think is right.

Which brings me to this:
The bishops plead for understanding of Iran’s nuclear ambitions. “The public and political rhetoric that Iran is a rogue regime, an outpost of tyranny, is as fallacious as the Iranian description of the US as the Great Satan. Iran’s relationship with Islamic terrorist organisations should not be seen as proof of any al-Qaeda link.”


Oh, so now they're saying we're supposed to be understanding of Salafist and other terrorist organizations as long as they're not the ones directly responsible for 9/11?

And they want to blind themselves to the nature of the Iranian government in order to be able to pretend their position is in some way moral?
Posted by: Phil Fraering   2005-09-19 00:21  

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