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| Europe |
| Eurofighter a shooting star in clash with US jets |
| 2005-06-23 |
| A chance encounter over the Lake District between a Eurofighter trainer and two F-15 aircraft turned into a mock dogfight, with the British plane coming off best - much to the surprise of some in the RAF. The episode was hushed up for fear of causing US blushes. The 'clash' took place last year over Windermere when the two-seater RAF Eurofighter was 'bounced' from behind by the two F-15E fighters. The US pilots intended to pursue the supposedly hapless 'Limey' for several miles and lock their radars on to it for long enough so that if it had been a real dogfight the British jet would have been shot down. But much to the Americans' surprise, the Eurofighter shook them off, outmanoeuvred them and moved into shooting positions on their tails. The British pilots themselves were almost as surprised at winning an encounter with an aircraft widely regarded as the best fighter in the world. |
| Posted by:True German Ally |
| #26 Same thing happens when F15s and F16s dogfight. |
| Posted by: ed 2005-06-23 17:38 |
| #25 There is a lot of nationalistic rah-rah in this story, and no attributed source. How do we know it came down like this? How do we know the intentions of the US pilots, Brit-hack clairvoyance notwithstanding? For that matter, how do we know that it happened at all? The writer is certainly not very well informed in the areas we can check. As others have mentioned, the F-15, designed around 1970, probably isn't the top fighter in the world and is certainly not regarded as such by informed observers. The F-15E is not even the top version for this sort of thing. The "Eurofighter" was renamed Typhoon several years ago. The Typhoon program is under some fiscal pressure. The lefty unions fear unemployment in spite of their peacenik principles, and they have good contacts with anti-American shills in the bigoted Brit media. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2005-06-23 17:27 |
| #24 Obviously this was an unfair engagement - they had a big chunk of concrete to balance their bird, heh. ;-) |
| Posted by: .com 2005-06-23 16:57 |
| #23 Rafael ---> I read a report on the Indian engagment. Our planes were restricted on top speed, started in inferior positioning, etc as well as and a few other things. It wasn't a straight out fight. As for the Brits...nice job. If the US gets a piece of humble pie, as stated, is good that it's from a strong ally. It boosts confidence on the British side in their equipment and teaches a valuable lesson to "hot shot" air jocks on our side. They should thank those Brit pilots. In combat, the results would have been far less forgiving. |
| Posted by: 98zulu 2005-06-23 16:37 |
| #22 First the Indians, now the Brits... what's going on?!? Send'em back to Top Gun school. |
| Posted by: Rafael 2005-06-23 14:52 |
| #21 Agreed, Matt. While we could argue all day long about "what were the conditions, F16 vs. F15, etc.", at the end of the day, we're on the same side and I look forward to many years of joint operations together. Now, about those German pilots..... (and how are the Aussies? Love having them as allies). |
| Posted by: BA 2005-06-23 13:45 |
| #20 Good for the UK. There's nothing wrong with having an ally that's ready, willing and able to fight. |
| Posted by: Matt 2005-06-23 13:21 |
| #19 Did the Eurofighter fix bayonets on the nose? |
| Posted by: Seafarious 2005-06-23 13:01 |
| #18 thank god for the british empire! |
| Posted by: bk 2005-06-23 12:59 |
| #17 We should expect to read more and more of these ans the F-22 build falls lower and lower. |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2005-06-23 12:52 |
| #16 There is always going to be the need for a Dogfighter to get in close and hassle the bad guys. The F-15 was developed as an air superiority (TopCap) platform and Bomb Truck. Made to kill from a distance with missiles. Or drop bombs. Not to get within knife fighting distance and tangle in a furball. Which is more the forte of the F-16. Congrats to the RAF! Jack. |
| Posted by: Jack Deth 2005-06-23 12:44 |
| #15 We in the UK aren't as crap as we look! See post #9. You guys rock! US, UK, Germany, Israel have the best fighter pilots in the world. |
| Posted by: mmurray821 2005-06-23 12:32 |
| #14 You'd see huge numbers of dead chinese pilots. We in the UK aren't as crap as we look! |
| Posted by: Ulereger Clavigum6227 2005-06-23 12:28 |
| #13 Marlowe - you are right for small 2 on 2 ship formations. Fights involving hundreds of aircraft are different. The same thing was thought during the early days of Vietnam. Then, when there were more targets than missiles or the missiles missed, you were in a dogfight situation. Maneuverability is still very important, but is not seen very much because of the wonderful accuracy of our weapons and the small scale of the engagements today. If we fought China, we would see huge engagements and dogfights again. |
| Posted by: mmurray821 2005-06-23 11:40 |
| #12 Arguing over the wrong thing. Dogfights are glamorous but irrelevant. AWACS controlled theaters and stand-off weapons are what's dominating today. Soon it will be something else, but it won't be dogfights. |
| Posted by: Marlowe 2005-06-23 11:34 |
| #11 I dunno, I'm kind of skeptical of the value of this report. What were the rules and conditions? What were the pilots' training level? As for that "best fighter in the world" stuff, well, the F-15 was built to be an interceptor. For a dogfight, the F-16 would be the more capable machine. |
| Posted by: Bomb-a-rama 2005-06-23 10:53 |
| #10 JosephMendiola, what's the JL series? But yeah, good show, Howard UK and 2b. :) BA, would they have even noticed? :D This is why I'm glad that the future plan is for the UK and the US to both switch over to the F-35 JSF for commonality ... |
| Posted by: Edward Yee 2005-06-23 10:42 |
| #9 The Brits are damn good too. I'm glad we are on the same side. Our combined one-two punch can take out anyone. |
| Posted by: mmurray821 2005-06-23 09:30 |
| #8 Lets see how the Chicom "MONTAIN EAGLE" JL's fare ags the Brits. The "Eagle" closely resembles an updated F-5 Tiger series. |
| Posted by: JosephMendiola 2005-06-23 08:52 |
| #7 Yes, yes. But, hey, if it was an F-22, the Brits would've never even seen them, just heard that radar had been locked on them! |
| Posted by: BA 2005-06-23 08:47 |
| #6 never underestimate the British in a war. |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-06-23 08:38 |
| #5 Also, even if they were playing "dogfight" the US planes would have been operating under some rather strict flight rules over the UK that wouldn't obtain in combat. But yes, the F15E is not the top dogfighter and is old. |
| Posted by: too true 2005-06-23 08:33 |
| #4 Fear the Royal Flying Corps. |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2005-06-23 08:32 |
| #3 And actually, the F-15 isn't even the world's best anymore anyway, much less the F-15E ... Then again, this DOES show an interesting "other perspective" to our trend towards strike fighters at the expense of dogfighting ... |
| Posted by: Edward Yee 2005-06-23 08:32 |
| #2 Maybe. But never underestimate your adversary, that what it comes down, too. |
| Posted by: True German Ally 2005-06-23 08:30 |
| #1 the two F-15E fighters. The 15E is the two seat fighter bomber version, not the pure dogfighter. 15's are getting old and the Eurofighter is state of the art. Anyway, it all comes down to the man in the cockpit. |
| Posted by: Steve 2005-06-23 08:25 |