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Arabia
Rice criticises Saudi record on democratic reform
2005-06-22
US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice criticised Saudi Arabia's record on democratic reform and the jailing of three activists but was firmly rebuffed on Tuesday by Washington's staunch Middle East ally. "The row is really meaningless," Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal told a post-midnight news conference after Rice conferred with him and the country's de facto ruler, Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz. "The assessment that is important for any country in the development of its political reform is the judgment of its own people," Prince Saud said. "And that is, in the final analysis, the criteria that we follow."
"Pfeh! What does she know?"
Rice flew into Riyadh on the fourth leg of a regional swing after delivering a major speech in Cairo calling for sweeping democratic change and naming Saudi Arabia as one of the states still lagging.
Posted by:Fred

#35  "These Luddites went nutzo. Wouldn't talk to us again. Just as bad as being shunned by nutzo religious groups. (opposite ends of the spectrum but same quality of brains.)"

Sounds like your karma ran smack-dab into their dogma-- and met a brick wall.

People like that are religious nuts: even though their religion comprises little more than an incoherent jumble of half-assed, looney "isms" like feminism, Marxism, environmentalism, and racialist victimism, those beliefs are every bit as fixed and immune to reason as those of the most fanatical Muslim.

And given a chance, they'll prove just as murderous, too.
Posted by: Dave D.   2005-06-22 18:27  

#34  Dave D.
In the late 70s there was a good free rock concert in the Black Hills after an anti nuke mining rally. A couple of us engineers knew some of that crowd and were planning a trip up there for backpacking anyway so we went to a few of their meetings....
Trip and concert came and went.
Afterwords they got to wondering if they needed protest about FUSION... So one buddy came back with a report saying it was unlikely to work near term but could be the saviour of energy and environment when it came online.
These Luddites went nutzo. Wouldn't talk to us again. Just as bad as being shunned by nutzo religious groups.
(opposite ends of the spectrum but same quality of brains.)
Posted by: 3dc   2005-06-22 17:27  

#33  Finally watched "Team America" last night.
Damn it rings too true.
The Michael Moore puppet really rang true as a sucide bomber for the LLL.

Rorry!
Posted by: 3dc   2005-06-22 17:20  

#32  "She didn't say what you quoted her as saying. That's rather inaccurate of you, isn't it?"

He's just doing what's natural for leftists: resorting to straw-man arguments.

I used to think there must be some "Little Red Book" of dishonest debating tactics that all leftists were required to study. Anymore, though, I'm all but convinced that the reason these people become leftists in the first place is because their reasoning is all screwed up: "thought", for them, appears to be little more than an uncontrollable, chaotic sequence of straw-man fallacies.
Posted by: Dave D.   2005-06-22 13:04  

#31  One point, LH:
Hawaii was under martial law for the duration. That was one reason the Hawaii Japanese were not moved. (The horrible demand on shipping was another.)

Oh, and J. Edgar Hoover was opposed to the relocation.
Posted by: Jackal   2005-06-22 13:01  

#30  :)

Civility is laudable. Overrated, but laudable, lol!
Posted by: .com   2005-06-22 11:35  

#29  .com wrote: Dr Steve - you're just too nice, my friend. NMM doesn't want to discuss or even debate, he wants to spew.

Hey, I'm a moderator now, I have to maintain some level of civility :-)

Unfortunately for him, he exhibits all of the symptoms for having the Sphincter of Allan... Oral diarrhea, the Dhimmi trots.

ROFL! You da man wit da words! I'm going to have to work the "Dhimmi trots" into a lecture somehow.
Posted by: Steve White   2005-06-22 10:45  

#28  "Has the President or the AG proprosed relocating all the Moslems into camps, like FDR did with those of Japanese descent? No? "

yah, well FDR was pressured by Republican Gov. Earl Warren of California. Though Warren is hardly a Republican that conservatives have any retrospective fondness for. Note that Japanese in Hawaii were NOT interned, though they were more of a danger than Japanese in California. Also note that Japanese were NOT interned based on descent, but, IIRC, actual citizenship, or at least Japanese birth. However many American born children went to the camps with their Japanese born parents.
Posted by: liberalhawk   2005-06-22 10:11  

#27  good for Condi - i continue to be pleased with her performance since being appointed Sec of State. Perhaps the best person in the Cabinet, at this point.
Posted by: liberalhawk   2005-06-22 10:06  

#26  RC - I have no doubt you're right. I guess, in sum, the competence of the Iraqi forces that we're seeing is worthy of being called the tipping point - the war is now won, it's just the nasty biz of mopping up the Short Bus Sunnis... which, of course, makes me think of Turkey...

Your Good News Law definitely applies, lol!
Posted by: .com   2005-06-22 09:57  

#25  OK, was NMM's reappearance prompted by Durbin's non-apology, or is there some other bad news for the left? Perhaps it's this:

http://www.taemag.com/issues/articleID.18615/article_detail.asp

Or maybe it's the reports of the terrorists fighting among themselves?
Posted by: Robert Crawford   2005-06-22 09:51  

#24  Wow, NMM, are you sure you really aren't Mike Moore? You seem about as ignorant (or mendacious) as he.

FDR was a fascist, or at least an admirer of many fascist principles. He, and his appointees openly stated they were copying ideas from Mussolini and other socialists. Go back and read the speeches to Congress and position papers. Have the librarian help you with any big words. Compare the NIRA, AAA, the various "boards" and "comittees" against the "corporations" of Italy (hint: "corporation" in Italy does not mean what it does over here.) Look at the various "progressive" ideas back them (eugenics, euthanesia) and compare them to the fascists'. Pretty similar, aren't they?

Oh, what do you think of W being more liberal than FDR? Has the President or the AG proprosed relocating all the Moslems into camps, like FDR did with those of Japanese descent? No?

Your next idiocy is a "GOP Congress." The Democrats took control in 1931 and held it, often by a 2/3 majority, until 1947. It was members of his own party, such as Wheeler and Borah, who were the toughest opponents. It's one thing not to know the partisan make-up of a particular Congress, but to then brazenly state a falsehood as an argument is ... typical of the Left.

Ed and .com have covered the rest better than I could do, so I'll stop here.
Posted by: Jackal   2005-06-22 09:34  

#23  had to fight a GOP Congress to get there
FDR? A GOP Congress? Study any history in that little midwestern hometown of yours Mike?
Posted by: Shipman   2005-06-22 08:27  

#22  US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice criticised Saudi Arabia's record on democratic reform and the jailing of three activists but was firmly rebuffed on Tuesday by Washington's staunch Middle East ally.

Words fail.


Posted by: gromgorru   2005-06-22 08:13  

#21  Germany didn't have the European equivalent of Iran, Syria, or Saudi Arabia feeding terrorists into it.

Not to mention the fact that the Nazis never believed that dying in battle was punching a ticket to Heaven and 72 c**ts.
Posted by: Ptah   2005-06-22 05:56  

#20  
NotMikeMoore said:""And as far as I know--no Americans were killed by "insurgents" after the war was over in Germany. ""

You're forgeting the german 'werewolves' that terrorized the landscape of occupied Germany for years after the war.
Posted by: JustANote   2005-06-22 04:51  

#19  Texas I can understand, that's where Mucky lives. But Alabama??? What is that about?
Posted by: trailing wife   2005-06-22 04:04  

#18  That was quite the trial of turds NMM laid tonight.

Must be some really good news to bring meme-boy out of his DhimmiLair. Semi-sober, no less.

Dr Steve - you're just too nice, my friend. NMM doesn't want to discuss or even debate, he wants to spew. Pressure gauge reached critical and thar she blew. Unfortunately for him, he exhibits all of the symptoms for having the Sphincter of Allan... Oral diarrhea, the Dhimmi trots. Ugly.
Posted by: .com   2005-06-22 02:15  

#17  Scratch a "progressive", like NotMikeMoore, and find a fascist. Never in history have more than 50 million people been freed from the most oppressive dictatorships with so few casualties on either side. Never has an occupation been so sensitive to the local population as they progress to democracy and constitutional government. No, instead, NMM would channel FDR and Truman. FDR and Truman waged total war against Germany and Japan. Which country, Iraq or Afghanistan, should 13% of the population be killed so that NMM lust for FDR can be satisfied? Which Iraqi city do you select to be the Dresden standin? Which Afghan cities do you advocate nuking? Or is your desire to see 400,000 dead Americans as happened under FDR and Truman?

Sure kill 8 million Iraqis, as was done to the Germans, and a lot of fight will be gone. Well, except for that unfortunate post-war thing with the Wolverines. I don't remember reading of any US Army interrogations with Glenn Miller records, just firing squads and the hangman's noose. Care to guess how many Americans were killed after the Japanese surrender?

PS. Looks like "Faux News" Steve is closer to the mark than NotMike "Fake but Accurate" Moore. CIA Factbook stats deleted.
Posted by: ed   2005-06-22 01:24  

#16  As enjoyable as watching the pig-wrestling match that constitutes arguing with NMM, I have to comment on that pic of Rice.

It seems that she's been picking up Rumsfeld's fighting techniques. Is that the Bloody Tiger Claw or Eagle Grip of Iron? Hmmm, gotta go back to the illustrated manual to know for sure.
Posted by: beer_me   2005-06-22 01:03  

#15  For once--you are right! The population stats! Who would think that there are more Afghans!?
Posted by: NotMikeMoore   2005-06-22 00:54  

#14  Iraq's population: about 26 million.

Afghanistan's population: about 29.9 million.

Both are July 2005 estimates from the World Factbook. Total then is about 56 million, not 47 million.

I guess I was wrong :-)
Posted by: Steve White   2005-06-22 00:48  

#13  Re-read my comment -- "since Harry Truman".

It's a wonder you can't understand that Saddam was a fascist, that the Ba'athists were fascists. Somehow you missed the fact that the Ba'athist party took their preamble right out of the Italian Fascist party. But do a simple comparison between the fascists then and Saddam until just recently, and it should become apparent. Saddam was a real fascist.

By the way, you're wrong about Germany after the war. There was a residual resistance movement, and it killed some GIs. We were a bit heavy handed then, we'd just find the Germans responsible and execute them in the field. Ah, those were the days ...
Posted by: Steve White   2005-06-22 00:45  

#12  And the 47 million figure you pulled out of your ass like a Faux News commentator? Iraq has around 20 millions people--so you mean Ahghanistan has about 27 million? Keep lying Pinocchio
Posted by: NotMikeMoore   2005-06-22 00:44  

#11  Fascism? Ever read history? It was that liberal FDR who ended Fascism--after he had to fight a GOP Congress to get there. FDR freed a lot more people from Fascism (THE REAL FASCISM) than the lying ass in the White House ever did. And as far as I know--no Americans were killed by "insurgents" after the war was over in Germany. That DEMOCRATIC President defeated the Fascists! But what do I know-- GW sez "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!" LOL Tell that to the guys at Camp LeJeune
Posted by: NotMikeMoore   2005-06-22 00:40  

#10  I see, and your 'progressive' movement is somehow going to accomplish that. Uh, sure. Just what does your movement have to offer to deal with the miserable tyrants of the world to get their feet off the necks of the poor, miserable sods? I see a lot of talk and hand-waving, but I don't see any action.

GWB has liberated more people from the grip of fascism than any president since Harry Truman. There's about 47 million Afghans and Iraqis who have now voted in true elections, who have a chance to build a decent life, and have an opportunity to build their countries. Perfect? Not by a long shot.

Better than the progressive movement has ever done anywhere?

Yep.
Posted by: Steve White   2005-06-22 00:35  

#9  Maybe those theories fly in Texas and Alabama--but in the real world?--it ain't changin'
Posted by: NotMikeMoore   2005-06-22 00:33  

#8  Maybe after Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen, Qatar, Algeria
Posted by: NotMikeMoore   2005-06-22 00:32  

#7  terefore we aint menshen it.

bad! bad! tahts a bad condee! tahts a very bad condee!
Posted by: muck4doo   2005-06-22 00:32  

#6  Of course I believe in democracy--but there is no way in HELL ANY American administration is going to accomplish that in Saudi
Posted by: NotMikeMoore   2005-06-22 00:29  

#5  Ohfergawdsake -- we're talking about promoting democratic reform. If we had influence on the Soodis they'd have fixed the biggest problems by now. It's precisely because they're a feudal state with petrodollars that pushing democratic reform is necessary.

You do believe in democracy, right?
Posted by: Steve White   2005-06-22 00:26  

#4  
If you really believe she has ANY influence over the way Saudi Arabia conducts it's business or it's government--NOW THAT's funny
Posted by: NotMikeMoore   2005-06-22 00:24  

#3  I was just digesting your optimistic comments to their logical conclusion
Posted by: NotMikeMoore   2005-06-22 00:23  

#2  She didn't say what you quoted her as saying. That's rather inaccurate of you, isn't it?

Is there something wrong with the Secretary of State, any Secretary of State, promoting democratic reform in the most intolerant parts of the world? You're the liberal, you tell us.
Posted by: Steve White   2005-06-22 00:17  

#1  As she continued to lie her ass off. "We're gonna reform Saudi Arabia and make it a democratic State" LOL Just like we've made Iraq one
Posted by: NotMikeMoore   2005-06-22 00:13  

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