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| Highly Promoted Muslims Against Terrorism March Draws Dozens |
| 2005-05-16 |
| Sat May 14, 7:17 PM ET WASHINGTON (AFP) - A march in the US capital organized by the Free Muslims Against Terrorism group, whose members seek to promote democracy while rejecting the use of radical Islam, drew only a few dozen supporters. This March was promoted heavily. The number of websites promoting it almost exceeded the number of marchers. Who is willing to draw the obvious conclusions. On its web site {http://www.freemuslims.org/], the group prior to the protest had asked supporters to, "join us in sending a message to radical Muslims and supporters of terrorism that we reject them and that we will do all we can to defeat them. "We also want to send a message of hope to the people of the Muslim world and the Middle East who seek freedom, democracy and who reject radical Islam that we are with them and that we will do all we can to support them," it said. doesn't this send the message that Muslims do not reject supporters of terrorism and doesn't it send a message that is discouraging to hope. |
| Posted by:mhw |
| #26 This is not a Bad Thing, and may lead to the development of a class of truly moderate Muslims in time. Time, however, is not on our side. All the progress in Afghanistan was undone by one Michael Isikoff with one article, and there are a LOT of Michael Isikoffs out there. |
| Posted by: docob 2005-05-16 23:15 |
| #25 Abraham's argument with God about destroying Sodom and Gemorrah, Liberalhawk? Unfortunately, it's a lot easier for God to pick out the few good men from amongst the evil than it is for an American soldier/marine/troop (what is the correct term here??) or politician -- even Bush. But .com, LH's categories should make it easier to provide reasons for the various types of less radical Muslims to come over to the non-Dark Side, and thus continue whittling down the radicals' support base in Iraq, at least, to begin with. This is not a Bad Thing, and may lead to the development of a class of truly moderate Muslims in time. |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2005-05-16 22:45 |
| #24 Well at the risk of saying "wait a minute you're both right", I must say "wait a minute you're both right". Yes there are non Jihadist muslims. Yes there are a lot of them. However, yes there are a lot of Jihadist muslims and yes, the non Jihadist muslims are generally impotent against them. What's even worse, however, is the personality disorder of many muslims, even, maybe especially, the sectarian or doctrinally moderate ones. They can be very rationale, even acknowledging the fact that their coreligionists are into violent jihad then all of a sudden they go into a 'but its the fault of you infidels' or 'if only you infidels would allow us to go on CNN and denounce violent jihad' or 'its the fault of that Islamic traitor x' and then after a bit of that personality it becomes a 'but in the middle ages all the philosophers were Moslem and we invented this and that but we weren't united and...". Its really a form of tri (or quad)-psychophrenia. |
| Posted by: mhw 2005-05-16 21:19 |
| #23 (snif) Like old times. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2005-05-16 19:30 |
| #22 Aw, you had to go and ruin it. Okay, back to the apologist jerkoff Sale Bin with ya. C'ya round. |
| Posted by: .com 2005-05-16 17:33 |
| #21 for your benefit im now posting "moderate muslim watch" to any RB article that points out or involves same. No discussion, just a quick label. Hope it helps. |
| Posted by: Liberalhawk 2005-05-16 17:28 |
| #20 Lh - *applause* You've got a kind of Shimone Peres thing working there - and that's meant as a compliment. I don't accept your divide and conquer categories, a strawman from what I've seen and realized: When a jihadi gets in the face of one of your Moderate Muzzies - he says "Allahu Akbar! Lead me, Master!" lex - If I accepted your math, then we're only talking about 1.1Bn asshole Muzzies, then. Critical mass? Sorry, vast mass and even the free radicals are on the other side of the equation. Look, this isn't going to be anywhere near as easy as fighting Nazism. They were localized, except for a very few well-known pockets. This is everywhere. You will not know if he's a Muzzy-First Muzzy until he's tested - by a call to support, whether that be funds, safehouse, logistical support, or activation to drive a Splodey-Dope MIED. There is, as far as I can see or recall, NO solid evidence that anyone ever confronted by the jihadis ever did any more than escape their clutches. Certainly not fight them, or capture them. Maybe they drop a dime on them, later... much later when the intel is worthless. Max. What we see in Iraq, the tip-offs, is encouraging, but if there's any relationship to religion, it's Shi'a vs Sunni. The cold hard fact of it is that if the Jihadis kill enough regular Iraqis then, eventually, almost every Iraqi, Shi'a, anyway, will have that same view of the terrorists that they have of Saddam - because they will have lost family to them. That is hardly a rousing condemnation of radical Islam - it's blood feud. Arab-think doesn't lend itself to acts of selflessness. Okay. Enough. I said my piece and you said yours. That's the best defense of the Mythical Moderate Muslim that I've ever seen. :-) |
| Posted by: .com 2005-05-16 17:24 |
| #19 Be careful not to judge reality by the poor snapshots of caricatures that the MSM choose to dispense to us. Like pro-Bush Americans, moderate muslims exist in large numbers, but are not given to marches and other public displays of the sort that make for splashy photos. Is this silent movement a silent majority of muslims? I've no idea. But it's pretty clear that there are at least 10m in Iraq, and probably 3x that number in Iran, and perhaps a few million in Egypt and millions more across the other major muslim nations. I'd be surprised if the number of moderate muslims worldwide was less than 100 million. That's more than critical mass. |
| Posted by: thibaud (aka lex) 2005-05-16 16:19 |
| #18 MHW - youre right, there are probably some who would be against terrorism, but wouldnt want to talk about reform of Islam or female equality. But that cant be all. Hell, Ive been in Iranian restaurants in the DC area, where they have charity boxes for the Iranian student resistance. I mean as far as I can tell alot of these folks are pro-Shah, for Gods sake. I have a hard time beleiving that such folks stayed home for ideological reasons. More likely they said "Nawash, who he?" |
| Posted by: Liberalhawk 2005-05-16 15:58 |
| #17 jennie is right, theyve had big turnouts by muslims against terror in Iraq, and not just Kurds by any means. Numbered brigades - yup, Iraqi army units that have taken over much of Baghdad and Mosul, though the MSM neglects that. The afghan army. The Pakis, who, corrupt and penetrated as they are, still get a lot done. The Algerians. Hell, here in RB is where i find the most sources for muslims on our side. Which is limited, since RB will have articles on guys FIGHTING on our side, but not many on ordinary folks just living their lives. Part of it is what you mean by "our side". If youre looking for guys who are gonna go around with signs saying how great Bush is, no you wont find many muslims saying that - hell you wont find many non-Americans outside eastern europe and some former Soviet Republics (oh, and Lebanon, I suppose, but they may have been Christian Lebanese). But my standards for being antiterrorist arent that high. Ive got four categories of "moderate muslims" that matter. Group A - being against al-qaeeda and its allies in their campaign of violence in muslim countries and the US. Group B - being against ALL terrorism, including so called resistance in Israel and Iraq. Group C - being for a fairer position on women Group D - being against ALL terrorism and for a fairer position on women. I'll admit group D is not large, worldwide - though it includes rather more than the Kurds - I think it DOES include many Turks, Albanians and Bosnians, a few Indonesians, and quite a number of American muslims. OTOH there are also muslims who fit b or c, but not both. And most important, from the WOT perspective, there are plenty who oppose al qaeeda and its terrorism but make an exception for Israel. Does that drive me crazy - you bet it does. With every fabric of my being it drives me crazy. But ultimately I have to be realistic, and look at this from a US strategic point of view - the anti-Israel propaganda has been going around the region for decades, and is NOT limited to muslims, BTW. Got to put that in a box and deal it with it seperately. Ditto with the feminist stuff. There are millions who dont want anything to do with Wahabism cause it oppose their local traditions, but who aint too enlightened about women. For now they can also be our allies. Basically, dot com, i just am not comfortable with categorizing people by the group they belong to. If there is even ONE member of the group who doesnt fit the stereotype. Which I guess makes me a liberal, even if I didnt vote for Kerry, even if I supported the war in Iraq, even if I think torture is justified at times in the WOT. But then it also make George Bush and Condi Rice liberals, so i guess im in good company. |
| Posted by: Liberalhawk 2005-05-16 15:53 |
| #16 Jen! I had heard you were back - Welcome Home! |
| Posted by: .com 2005-05-16 15:07 |
| #15 Love it, dotcom! You are The Man. Couldn't agree more: the myth of the "moderate Muslim" is bigger and even more valid than that of the Koran-flushing Gitmo guard. The pathetic turnout of this rally is proof of that. I'm must confess, I'd hoped for a huge turnout. Per your Kurd definition, they've had far bigger turnouts by Muslims against Terror in Iraq, for |
| Posted by: Jennie Taliaferro 2005-05-16 14:56 |
| #14 Sheesh. Regards the Kurds, indeed - the majority of them are very UN-Islamic in their civility, industry, grasp of democratic ideals, and obvious love of capitalism. Ya got me, sorta, on the Kurds, cuz they just don't seem to be very good Muzzies. So, some solid percentage of 5 million Kurds vs. the oft-bandied 1.2 billion Muzzies. That the Kurds are indisputably, even by the Grate Apologist for All Things Criticized - LIBERALhawk, UNIQUE rather makes them the least acceptable support for your whitewash. The evidence in hand indicates you love standing tiptoe on an island of exception in a flood of Muzzie hate. Just scan the articles on any given day in RB and compare them to the positive Moderate Muslim accomplishments you imply exist with that one UNIQUE example. When you can point to positive accomplishments of Moderate Muslims in combating the real Muslims, let me know - Kurds excepted. When the 132nd Moderate Muslim Brigade rolls into Tehran and hangs the Mullahs, for instance, then shall I sing your praises and eat a flock of crows. When the Billion Man Peace March of Moderate Muslims begins dismantling the hate madrassahs and slitting the throats of the Jihadi Imams, I'll be your greatest supporter and fan. When the Moderate Muslims expose the Jihadi Muslims and translate all those NSA intercepts leading to their arrest and capture, I'll be your bud. When the Moderate Muslims stop contributing to the "charities" that fund the killing, we'll have a drink. When the House of Wahhabi can't find a Moderate Muslim venue to subvert and radicalize with oil money, we'll sing "Kumbayah" in harmony. None of this happens in a vacuum. Read the article titles again and tell me you have a solid case. Show me examples of the positive works of the Moderate Muslims. Show me how they have had enough of the hijacking of their "Religion of Peace" and are taking it back, forcefully. The Moderate Muslims don't exist in numbers sufficient to accomplish dick. They've had a long time - prime time on the front burner - to prove their existence and make believers and allies. It hasn't happened because it's just bullshit. A non-jihadi Muslim is just an untapped resource for the jihadists. When a jihadi gets in the face of one of your Moderate Muzzies - he says "Allahu Akbar! Lead me, Master!" |
| Posted by: .com 2005-05-16 14:36 |
| #13 LH It may not just be Nawash's organizing skill or lack thereof. The beliefs of the Free MuslimsAgainstTerrorism includes a number of provision that would get any of them hit with a death fatwa if he was in the Umma. e.g. - reinterpretation of Islam is necessary absolute separation of religion and state equality of woman - equality of womanarticles |
| Posted by: mhw 2005-05-16 14:19 |
| #12 "both US based moderate muslims" How about Zalmay Khalilzad, now US ambassador to Iraq? How about the thousands of Iraqis in the US who voted in the Jan 30th election? How about Afghani Americans who have gone back to help rebuild? Cmon guys - this only proves that this particular guy (a GOP candidate for the legislature a few years back, BTW) aint a big deal - it doesnt say anything about which community is and isnt moderate. |
| Posted by: Liberalhawk 2005-05-16 14:02 |
| #11 dot com, i thought you were all gung ho for the Iraqi Kurds? Thats 5 million moderate muslims right there. Not to mention all the anti-regime Iranians Michael Ledeen goes on about - is Ledeen apologist? Ever organized a protest rally dot com? Its not easy. Thats why the lefties rely on ANSWER, even though ANSWER's Stalinism is an embarrasment to them - cause ANSWER can do the hard grunt work of organizing a demo. Which Nawash evidently can't do. |
| Posted by: Liberalhawk 2005-05-16 13:59 |
| #10 I'm extremely impressed that both US based moderate muslims showed up to protest against koran inspired savagery. Keep up the good work you practioners of the so called ROP. |
| Posted by: Mark Z. 2005-05-16 13:57 |
| #9 Boy, I hope they rented enough port-a-potties. |
| Posted by: Dreadnought 2005-05-16 13:50 |
| #8 When, pray tell, will we dispense with the myth of the Moderate Muslim? It's another meme from the apologists and ostriches. Regards the latter, I think their heads are not buried in the sand, however, they're up their asses. |
| Posted by: .com 2005-05-16 13:20 |
| #7 should be "home" , not "whom" |
| Posted by: Liberalhawk 2005-05-16 13:16 |
| #6 nawash seems to be a well intentioned guy, but not one with deep connections or clout in the muslim community - not necessarily because of his opposition to terrorism. There are thousands of muslims in the DC area who are definitely against terrorism - the region is whom to plenty of anti-regime Iranians for example. But I doubt they turned out for this guy. |
| Posted by: Liberalhawk 2005-05-16 13:15 |
| #5 Sea, Here is a WaPo article featuring Kamal Nawash. Take it for what you will. Muslims' Unheralded Messenger |
| Posted by: ed 2005-05-16 12:59 |
| #4 "Who is willing to draw the obvious conclusions." Yeah, the lesson is pretty clear, I'd say. |
| Posted by: Dave D. 2005-05-16 12:55 |
| #3 I was considering attending this rally, but after some research I concluded I did not know enough about the organizers to have confidence in adding my voice to their group. |
| Posted by: Seafarious 2005-05-16 12:37 |
| #2 LGF had a pic posted - I think the group at the other end of the square was the rally, either that, or they were waiting for a cab |
| Posted by: Frank G 2005-05-16 11:24 |
| #1 dozens, eh? speaks volumes. |
| Posted by: PlanetDan 2005-05-16 11:12 |