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| -Short Attention Span Theater- |
| Serpent Mound Possible Site of Meteor Impact |
| 2005-04-19 |
| CLEVELAND - Scientists studying recent rock samples taken from beneath an ancient earthen mound are trying to determine what caused unusually high concentrations of a metal rarely seen anywhere but near Earth's molten core or in asteroids and comets. Serpent Mound, an earthen snake effigy believed to have been built from about 1000 B.C. to A.D. 200 is about 60 miles east of Cincinnati. Some believe the 1,348-foot-long mound had a religious function for its builders, although nobody knows for sure what philosophy and beliefs shaped its origin because the mound builders left no written records. Geologists only recently discovered high concentrations of iridium 1,412 feet beneath the mound. The levels of the silver-gray metal, occasionally brought up in lava from volcanoes, measured 10 times beyond what is usually present in the Earth's crust. There's actually a little model of the "disturbed" area at the Serpent Mound site. It's roughly circular and the center is just about where Serpent Mound sits. Not as spectacular as Arizona's Meteor Crater, but, hey we Midwesterners take what we can get. |
| Posted by:Robert Crawford |
| #33 A glacial ice front when advancing (and they will typically advance and retreat every year or few years) acts like a giant bulldozer and will fill in depressions. I recall there are Karst depressions filled with glacial debris to similar depths. Were there a meteor crater, glaciation could fill it in within a few hundred to a few thousand years. This doesn't mean there was one, but glaciation obliterates almost all previous landforms especially deep depressions. |
| Posted by: phil_b 2005-04-19 9:10:42 PM |
| #32 how did the English get a piece of it and get out with their skins? |
| Posted by: 3dc 2005-04-19 9:08:02 PM |
| #31 ..and stop watching "In Search Of". But, but, Mr. Spock narrates it! |
| Posted by: Bomb-a-rama 2005-04-19 9:07:10 PM |
| #30 Serpent Mound Sites Dating |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2005-04-19 8:38:52 PM |
| #29 AC -- cool! Have fun looking. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2005-04-19 8:19:20 PM |
| #28 RC, are you sure there is 1400 ft of stone? Do you mean solid stone? Have a ref? You want me to go take pictures? The surrounding hills are certainly solid rock. While the creek valleys are certainly filled by erosion, this is Ohio, not Illinois or Iowa. In southern Ohio you get an inch or two of top soil, then clay for a few feet, then rock. Well, that tells us when the mound has been built in the present form, does it? It does not tell us what was there before... Note that sites of similar nature are built, almost as a rule, over older sites of similar nature. The site was certainly important before; there are Hopewell mounds right next to the Serpent Mound parking lot! The problem is, there's almost no evidence that the older cultures built effigy mounds. The Hopewell and Adena built conical mounds, geometric enclosures next to flowing water, and contour-hugging enclosures on top of hills. I've seen a few sources try to interpret some of their works as effigies, but the attempts range from laughable (the central mound at Seip as a "centipede effigy") to the questionable (three conjoined mounds in the center of the Newark Great Circle as an eagle). In contrast, the Fort Ancient culture have a few effigial mounds and similar works attributed to them. The Salamander near Newark is Fort Ancient, as is the Tarlton Cross. The dating of the Serpent places it right in the Fort Ancient culture's period. Coincidentally, this is also the peak period of effigy mound building in Wisconsin. For some reason, around 1000AD it was a Great Lakes region fad to build effigy mounds. (BTW -- to add to the confusion, the Fort Ancient people didn't build Fort Ancient. They got that name because they occupied the Fort Ancient site, but the walls of Fort Ancient were built by the Hopewell/Adena.) I'd buy that the Serpent may have been inspired by Halley's Comet. I don't think it's the remotest possibility it has anything to do with whatever made a crater shape a third of a mile underground. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2005-04-19 8:17:28 PM |
| #27 Forgot the link Odessa Crater |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2005-04-19 8:04:35 PM |
| #26 In a few weeks, by sheer coincidence, my gang of grad students and I will be working in and around the Odessa Meteor Crater, near Odessa Texas. This is much smaller than the Barringer Crater in Arizona, about 500 feet in diameter, but it is still the second largest in the United States. It is also much newer than the Barringer Crater, ca. 20,000 years old vs. 48,000 and quite a bit better preserved. The site is unusual for the very large number of nickel-iron meteorites that have been recovered from the area. Several much smaller impact points are associated with this one. These are not readily apparent from the surface and it is possible, indeed likely, that not all of them have been discovered. One of the things we will be doing is looking for more of them. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2005-04-19 8:03:44 PM |
| #25 Ship, no horsemen? ;-) |
| Posted by: Sobiesky 2005-04-19 7:51:00 PM |
| #24 I was gonna say I saw bears and cows in the clouds this afternoon, but I won't. :) |
| Posted by: Shipman 2005-04-19 7:46:47 PM |
| #23 AC, Thanx for related physics. Looking forward to whatever you 'dig up'. |
| Posted by: Sobiesky 2005-04-19 7:46:38 PM |
| #22 Concretion and compression would compact the lower levels of a morraine into "stone" (rigid continuous solid) within a few hundred years of deposition. If any formation is 1400 feet deep, the greater part of it is almost certainly stone, simply because compression will not allow loose aggregates (dirt etc.) to exist in continuous layers at that depth. If the material were average near-surface soil, which is nothing but a collection of really little rocks, the pressure at 1400 feet would be around 2100 lbs sq^2 inch, more than enough to compact the material into a rigid solid with the help of mineral concretion from percolating water. This does not happen at the bottom of the sea, where the pressure is higher, because the material is saturated with stagnant (as opposed to percolating) water, which is incompressible and has the effect of keeping the individual grains apart. Beyond that, there are few processes that would allow loose material to accumulate to that depth over a geologically short period of time. Glacial deposition is one but that depth of accumulation is rare because of the relative mobility of the glacial front. Beyond that, there is good evidence that the older land areas of the Earth (the Canadian shield and the Ohio basin, for example) are almost covered with the eroded remnants of impact craters. This is only apparent from careful analysis of subsurface structures. We are talking here about an accumulation of crater remnants over a period in the billions of years. It would not be unusual for measurable chemical traces of one of these long-ago events to turn up at a given spot. I'll see what I can dig up on this specific case. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2005-04-19 7:35:18 PM |
| #21 Geez! ;-) Meant "sites of religious nature are built over sites of similar nature". |
| Posted by: Sobiesky 2005-04-19 7:20:11 PM |
| #20 RC, A couple of years ago archaeologists found a charcoal layer at original ground level, under the Serpent. They had enough to carbon date, and the Serpent dates to around 1000AD. Well, that tells us when the mound has been built in the present form, does it? It does not tell us what was there before. The charcoal layer hints that there may be some continuity if it is found under the mound and not elsewhere. Note that sites of similar nature are built, almost as a rule, over older sites of similar nature. OTOH, the dating (about 1070CE) coincides with the appearance of Halley's comet (1066 CE), so there may be some connection with 'fiery serpent'. |
| Posted by: Sobiesky 2005-04-19 7:11:43 PM |
| #19 Sobiesky has a point. A glacial terminal morraine could deposit tens of feet of debris each year. Without knowing the geology, the thickness of the overlying 'rock' doesn't mean much. |
| Posted by: phil_b 2005-04-19 7:09:56 PM |
| #18 RC, are you sure there is 1400 ft of stone? Do you mean solid stone? Have a ref? |
| Posted by: Sobiesky 2005-04-19 6:57:32 PM |
| #17 high concentrations of iridium 1,412 feet beneath the mound & Motorola BoR, there is probably a better way to dispose of 'em than burry 'em under the Snake Mound.;-) 1412 ft, that's about 425 m... Not sure what is the geology of the area, but the deposit may be related to the Yucatan peninsula impact 65 mil years ago, which was supposedly instrumental in dino extinction. You can find a related layer all over western hemisphere and a less concentrated layer on the opposite side. The area was at the edge of last glaciation, so my guess would be there is a lot of rock debree mixed with silt. 425 m is rather a thick layer, but considering the last 1.2 mil yr of glacials and interglacials, a piece of cake. Even considering the last glacial only, the annual deposit would translate to something like 6 cm in average. So, I would be inclined to believe that it has little to do with an event that prompted building of the Snake Mound. |
| Posted by: Sobiesky 2005-04-19 6:52:05 PM |
| #16 BH -- Good one. Eset -- Seek help. No human being was around to witness whatever made the "anomaly" in Ohio; there's no more than a coincidental connection between the mound and the geology. The features that define the anomaly are buried; there are NO surface features. NOTHING in the topography suggests a "massive electrical discharge". It's the edge of the glacial plain, on the border of the Appalachian ridge; the area's marked by creek valleys and steep hills. Furthermore, your claim that the event took place in 700BCE is bullshit. There's 1400+ feet of STONE between the surface and the bottom of the anomaly, the location of the high iridium concentration. That much stone doesn't get laid down in 2700 years. Also, your claim that the mound was built in 700BC is bunk. A couple of years ago archaeologists found a charcoal layer at original ground level, under the Serpent. They had enough to carbon date, and the Serpent dates to around 1000AD. You're off by 1700 years. Stop reading von Danniken and stop watching "In Search Of". |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2005-04-19 6:39:12 PM |
| #15 Geologists only recently discovered high concentrations of iridium 1,412 feet beneath the mound. That's probably the site where Motorola buried all their satellites after they crashed to Earth.... ;) |
| Posted by: Bomb-a-rama 2005-04-19 6:27:07 PM |
| #14 Nice one BH. |
| Posted by: ed 2005-04-19 5:52:15 PM |
| #13 Get 'em BH. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2005-04-19 5:14:01 PM |
| #12 "...the British Museum is supposed to have a piece of it." So that's what has drawn all those jihaidis to London! Kabaanite. Lethal to Great Satans and PC Wankers alike. Causes jihadis to seethe, turbans to spin up, and politicians to appease - even at great distances. |
| Posted by: .com 2005-04-19 4:52:22 PM |
| #11 Thanks Eset, I thought the article was wrong and they had mixed up the date of the geological explanation with the meteor event. Apparently the magic space rock in Mecca isn't. It appears Allan went out into the desert after a meteor trail was seen and came back with a rock he said was the rock that fell from the sky. Its probably marble and BTW the British Museum is supposed to have a piece of it. |
| Posted by: phil_b 2005-04-19 4:46:27 PM |
| #10 BH, I got it fine. These people did not build a shrine around a space rock they just did not know what hit them, while some millenium and half later... |
| Posted by: Eset 2005-04-19 4:40:26 PM |
| #9 *sigh* Well, at least Frank G. got it. Apologies to the rest. |
| Posted by: BH 2005-04-19 4:33:10 PM |
| #8 RC, there is a reason why there is a Snake Mound. The event that disturbed the area did not happen 256MYA, but about 700BCE. When you look at the topography, you'll find features that would match a trace of the massive electric discharge, IOW a lightning bolt, with a central crater area reminding of what we think a meteorite/bolide impact would look like, with additional scaring on the edge of the 'crater' and other features that remind of cracks. The deposits of heavy metals are usually associated with these events, even as deep as ~1400ft in a dispersed fashion, and on the surface metals are usually found in nugget form, usually copper, but sometimes gold, silver or electrum (a gold & silver alloy). The image is a good representation of what happened. You see the coiled end, as if the snake is ready to strike from its point of rest high above, the zig-zag of the discharge and then the mouth of the snake swallowing the earth. BH, these people were not idiots, just somewhat ignorant--and we are not that remote from them as ignorance is concerned. They could not explain what happened and postulated deities they thought responsible for similar events. In some cases, seeing the wreck the gods caused, they though that appeasement may work. Including human sacrifices to feathered serpent (which is another moniker for the discharge; some cultures called it 'fiery serpent' or 'fiery dragon' and that later got misinterpreted as fire-breathing dragon), thinking maybe if they sacrifice a few, the multitude would be saved from the gods' wrath. Well, one thing they did not know: Appeasement never works! |
| Posted by: Eset 2005-04-19 4:18:27 PM |
| #7 So what made these people build ontop of an event that occured 250M years ago? The meteor left a greeting card for them. |
| Posted by: Charles 2005-04-19 4:13:51 PM |
| #6 So what made these people build ontop of an event that occured 250M years ago? |
| Posted by: phil_b 2005-04-19 4:09:48 PM |
| #5 "People who know there is something divine in Nature; they just don't know what it is." Mom - Nice! That's just poetic. Classy description - I may steal it, heh. Thx! |
| Posted by: .com 2005-04-19 3:56:08 PM |
| #4 What kind of people build a religion around a space rock? People who were scared out of their wits by a crashing rock from the sky. People with no concept of how natural forces work, so see the natural shot through with the supernatural. People who know there is something divine in Nature; they just don't know what it is. |
| Posted by: mom 2005-04-19 3:50:08 PM |
| #3 nice placement with the stiletto, BH |
| Posted by: Frank G 2005-04-19 3:38:05 PM |
| #2 BH , magic space rock smokers ? couldnt resist |
| Posted by: MacNails 2005-04-19 3:28:02 PM |
| #1 Sheesh! What kind of idiot builds a religion around a magic space rock? |
| Posted by: BH 2005-04-19 3:23:29 PM |