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Arabia
US, Saudis progressing on religious freedom
2005-03-18
A reminder there's stuff going on behind the scenes that we don't see. Not that I expect much to come out of it, but he's giving it the try: he's offering the Soddies the chance to back off gracefully from their plans for world domination, pretend it never happened so we can all be friends. Eventually they may actually take that generous offer, but it'll only be after they've been backed into a diplomatic and — more important and more difficult — economic corner. He'd better get started on the economic war soon, since I have to fill my tank tomorrow.
The United States has made important progress with Saudi Arabia during consultations on ways to enhance religious freedom in the kingdom, the State Department said Tuesday. The consultations began after the administration listed Saudi Arabia as a "country of particular concern" in a report last September that covered the state of religious freedom in more than 190 countries. Countries so designated can be subject to sanctions. Tuesday was the deadline for reporting to Congress on followup action but State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said more time was needed to evaluate the situation. Also designated for the first time as countries of particular concern last September were Vietnam and Eritrea.

Of the three, Saudi Arabia generated the most interest because the kingdom is a close US friend and had escaped US censure for religious intolerance previously. The report last September accused Saudi Arabia of "particularly severe violations" of religious freedom. Over the past six months, Ereli said the United States has been working for greater religious tolerance in all three countries. "We've made some important progress," Ereli said. "I think we're close to arrangements that respond to issues raised in the report." Perhaps with an eye on Tuesday's deadline, the Saudi government said last week in a statement that it has been carrying out a national public awareness campaign to educate Saudi citizens about the "true values of the Islamic faith and the importance of tolerance and moderation."
Posted by:Fred

#8  Tribes With Flags by Stephen Glass, I do believe. (Mr. Wife is painting the office, so all the books are stacked elsewhere, and I'm not to touch them until he's done.) Written after his stint as a reporter based in Lebanon, as I recall, in which he openly admits that all the Arab world based reporters including him lie through their teeth in order to maintain access and not be killed while over there. He gives examples of reporting about Israel to support his accusation. An interesting book, but smacks a bit too much of the butcher's apology to the pigs for my taste.
Posted by: trailing wife   2005-03-18 11:57:30 AM  

#7  Now, it's running out (the income is, more or less, the same While hard data on Saudi oil revenues and production are hard to obtain, its clear that SA oil revenues have surged (and at least doubled over the last 2 years) and are running at least a half billion USD a day.
Posted by: phil_b   2005-03-18 8:38:02 AM  

#6  Saudi Arabia isn't a country, let alone a nation

"Tribes with flags" is the phrase someone used. Seems to apply here.
Posted by: SteveS   2005-03-18 7:13:06 AM  

#5  gromgorru, you are looking at SA through westerners eyes. I have never been, but I have lived for many years in Asia. The Sauds have a godlike position as the protectors of the holy sites and as I have pointed out before deification of the leadership is the surest way to achieve a dynasty.

I hardly know where to start.
(a) Observing Asians teaches you nada about Arab societies.
The first managed to surpass tribal stage of development on their own, the second never did (the difference between perciving life as non-zero vs. zero sum game).
(b) Hashemites were protectors of the holy sites before El Saud, as well as direct discendands of the Prothet. It didn't stop their overtrow by el Saud. It didn't stop Paleos killing Abdulah & trying to kill Hussein once a month (or Iraqis exterminating the other branch).
Islam is just not the kind of religion that has semidevine dynasties (read up on califate period) . The only reason Saudis kept power, so far, is because they've been sharing the petrodollar bounty. Now, it's running out (the income is, more or less, the same---but the population has tripled).

p.s. I haven't been to Asia. However, I've been observing Homo Arabicus in action, and reading up on their history, since the first Intifada.


Posted by: gromgorru   2005-03-18 7:00:14 AM  

#4  gromgorru, you are looking at SA through westerners eyes. I have never been, but I have lived for many years in Asia. The Sauds have a godlike position as the protectors of the holy sites and as I have pointed out before deification of the leadership is the surest way to achieve a dynasty. Your argument would apply to Assad or Saddam but the Sauds can claim god selected them and that is a powerful argument in a religous society irrespective of its cohesion as a nation.

The Sauds may fear their own citizens but they fear the Americans more. They know they are only an oil supply interruption away from a US protective force in the Eastern oilfields.
Posted by: phil_b   2005-03-18 6:28:51 AM  

#3  Phil_b.
The problem with your argument is that Saudi Arabia isn't a country, let alone a nation---it's just a region dominated by the heirs of el Saud. If they let loose, even a little bit, it's the knife for them.
Posted by: gromgorru   2005-03-18 6:07:46 AM  

#2  Even if the MSM can't see the elephant in the room the Arab states clearly can. Bush invades an Arab country and throws its exleadership in the slammer in defiance of the UN and (tranzi) world opinion. SA's primary interest is how high it has to jump in order to clear the safe from invasion barrier.
Posted by: phil_b   2005-03-18 5:47:03 AM  

#1  When Jews can live there safely, then we'll know they've turned the corner. When there are Shia and Salifi mosques in Mecca, they will be on the way. Anything less is just words, which they will throw around recklessly as they attempt to divert Bush with bonbons.
Posted by: trailing wife   2005-03-18 4:27:11 AM  

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