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| Europe |
| Why Europe Really Opposes America |
| 2005-01-28 |
| January 28, 2005: One reason Europeans are so upset with American operations in Iraq, is because the United States has been more successful in shutting down terrorist operations within the United States. As a result, Islamic terrorists are concentrating more on carrying out terrorist attacks in Europe. As far as Islamic radicals are concerned, an infidel is an infidel. Besides, three years of efforts to carry out any kind of attack in the United States has met with many costly failures. American counter-terrorism forces have not captured a lot of Islamic terrorists in the United States, but the terrorist planning efforts meant that there were a lot of messages, and people, who could be intercepted. Many arrests were made overseas, or searches begun for newly identified terrorists. The United States has always been a difficult target for Islamic terrorists. It's not just the longer distances that must be traveled, but the nature of the Islamic and Arab-American population there. In Europe, Islamic, and especially Arab, immigrants are more likely to maintain their old country culture, to the exclusion of loyalty to the place they have moved to. The United States has always been a nation of immigrants. Anyone arriving is met with an attitude that, "you can be one of us." The higher proportion of loyal-American immigrants makes it more difficult for Islamic radicals to hide, recruit and plan their attacks inside the U.S.. In Europe, there is a much larger number of Islamic radical clergy, many of whom openly preach the need to "fight the infidels." European countries try to crack down on these radical clergymen, but the damage is already done. Moreover, there are ten times as many Moslems in Europe than there are in the United States. The combination of all these factors makes the Europeans very nervous. It was thought that European opposition to American operations in Iraq would provide a measure of protection. But this proved to be an illusion. The bombings in Spain last March made that very clear. The arrest of hundreds of Islamic radicals by European police, and discovery of dozens of terrorism plots, and growing radicalization of young European Moslems, has increased the danger. Islamic terrorist leaders now openly call for attacks in Europe, and some Islamic clergy in Europe call for the forcible conversion of Europe to Islam. The only good thing to come out of all this is enthusiastic cooperation by European police and intelligence organizations in American efforts to find and stop Islamic terrorism. But that may not be enough to prevent more bombs from going off in Europe. |
| Posted by:Steve |
| #13 After Colombine, someone in LA City schools said, you know it could happen here too and we all had a real good laugh - cause it could have happened - it just wouldn't have lasted as long. Maybe...two or three minutes before people shot back. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by six, as they say. |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-01-28 6:25:07 PM |
| #12 I think we're making this too complicated. In my experience, this hostility always seems to come down to one of two things-arrogance ("Europeans are smarter, more sophisticated") or mean-spiritedness ("you haven't suffered enough-I'd like to see America suffer x,y,z"--good old-fashioned coliseum bloodthirst). Maybe they are wounded by our efficacy as the writer claims, but I think that's scratching the surface. That's just a symptom of the root cause. OOOh-did you hear that? Root cause? Think I'll get invited to the UN one day? Naw-they're probably afraid an American woman like me will show up looking like Minnie Pearl. |
| Posted by: Jules 187 2005-01-28 2:58:52 PM |
| #11 Whne we went into Afghanistan we saw training videos of terrorists moving in on vehicles as though they were stopped at a light. When I saw this I envisioned a busy city street (close, cramped, one-way) with two or three SUV's full of terrorists side by side at the light. Everyone stops. The terrorists jump out with their weapons and begin hauling people out of cars and executing them. Can you imagine this happening? I did. It made me decide that if I saw anything of the sort I would start running people over, anything I could do before they got to me (I do not have a CCW, yet, but I digress). This sort of attack would take only a few moments and be over with, with the SUV's taking diverging routes out of the city. In America, even in cities with strict gun control laws, they would stand even odds of getting return fire in any situation like this. In Europe . . . it is unlikely. Even in Switzerland, where most adult males own fully automatic weapons, they do not carry them around in public. It would shock you to know how many Little Old Ladies pack heat illegally in the US, because they realize that the worst that could happen to them is not getting murdered and the Police are not going to be there to stop the criminals (fact of Life). It gave me a different perspective. It also appears that we may have to have genocide go on in the EU to maintain any semblance of freedom or democracy. |
| Posted by: Jame Retief 2005-01-28 2:39:37 PM |
| #10 Odd. The conventional wisdom has been that the French and German police have been working together with ours in trying to track down the bad actors. Are we really more successful in the US at shutting down terrorist operations? Or were there fewer cells to begin with (article says 10x more Muslims in Europe)? Does anybody know if we're trying to restrict Wahhabi recruiting in our prisons, for instance? |
| Posted by: James 2005-01-28 2:35:11 PM |
| #9 Another reason: the armed citizenry. |
| Posted by: Glosing Flineck2975 2005-01-28 1:25:00 PM |
| #8 There was a very interesting discussion at Bjorn Staerk's place late last year after Van Gogh's murder. I never thought about it like this, which is what Ptah is saying. We didn't protest cos we knew Bush would take care of it after 9/11. Europe is uneasy because their elected officials won't. Guiliani (sp) cleaning up NYC is the case-in-point. |
| Posted by: anonymous2u 2005-01-28 12:20:01 PM |
| #7 Are you selling it to the highest bidder? |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-01-28 11:59:29 AM |
| #6 OT: I'm in possession of video/audio of an F-16 taking out a group of 48 terrorists converging on a group of Marines pinned down in an ambush in Fallujah. It's spectacular. Anyone interested in receiving a copy of same please email me with F-16 in the subject header. You won't be disappointed. |
| Posted by: Mark Z. 2005-01-28 11:50:51 AM |
| #5 Islamic terrorist leaders now openly call for attacks in Europe, and some Islamic clergy in Europe call for the forcible conversion of Europe to Islam. A Eurabin civil war? |
| Posted by: gromgorru 2005-01-28 11:08:13 AM |
| #4 By the way, here's the dope on why Mitterand put France on our side for Gulf War I: His wife went to northern Iraq to investigate atrocities against the Kurds. The Iraquis shot at her chopper, which developed a progressive problem that eventually forced them to land far from their destination. He got on the phone and begged Bush Sr. to save his wife from the Iraquis. We were able to get two choppers in there and haul her ass out before the Iraqui search parties found them. He had to return the favor when GWI broke out, because his wife wouldn't have let him have any peace if he hadn't. |
| Posted by: Ptah 2005-01-28 10:58:52 AM |
| #3 thanks..interesting. |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-01-28 10:54:43 AM |
| #2 This may be one reason, but when it comes to Jean Beaujolais (the french equivalent to Joe Six-pack), it very much resonates: My mom was an immigrant from Haiti to the United States when she was a college student and became a Citizen when she married my dad, who was from Nebraska. Her dad was a real fanatic when it came to speaking classical french, so she very successfully lived in France for about 15 years, returning in 1999. She's a treasure-house of how the average french citizen REALLY thinks, as opposed to the French elite who project the image of the average Frenchman that they want the rest of the world to believe. She was totally, completely appalled at how complacent the average Frenchman had become with regards to terrorism at the close of the 20th century. This is mostly due to the French Government telling their people to "suck it up", and that they would handle everything. As a result, you don't get on a bus in France without looking under the seats for any packages. There are no mailboxes. There no self-storage lockers in any bus, train, or airport terminal. Every public, open air statue in France is a FAKE: the real thing had been removed when terrorists blew up one of the horses on a famous bridge in Paris. Apartment rent deposits for foreigners are astronomical due to the possiblity of Paleo-style "work accidents". All of this massive lack of vigor in prosecuting terrorism is greeted by the Typical Frenchman (60 to 70% of whom are Pro-american by her personal estimate) with the typical Gallic shrug and resignation. There was the occasional capture and trial of terrorists, but it's strictly darwinian elimination of the dumbest ones. The general impression is that, if a situation doesn't buy votes you'd normally get anyhow, then that's tough: there are squeakier wheels to grease. We americans have a far lower tolerance for this kind of bullshit, and our politicians know they'd get screwed to hell if they tried to BS their way out of doing something about it. For instance, I witnessed, on French Channel 2, with my own two eyes, a video of a peaceful group of socialists waiting to greet then French President Mitterand to their town being violently attacked by the communists. NOTHING came of that incident. It was as if it never happened. J. Edgar's Ghost wouldn't let any politican or law enforcement officer get away with that sort of behavior from commies, which is a big reason why we rarely saw that shit happening here in the US. It is postulated that the effect of a Free Iraq would be to cause unrest and demands for reform from the people of the surrounding ME countries, but most especially from the Iranians. Similar effect from Europe Vis. a Vis the United States and Terrorism: The french elites know they have NO ANSWER to the very reasonable question "why the sh*t don't you get your act together and go after the Domestic Terrorists like the Merkins?". They choose instead to make sure the question doesn't get raised publicly, and have an agreement among themselves and the opposition politicians not to rock the boat by demanding answers to that question: Think of them as Democrats savvy enough not to make political points by pointing out this problem, because the opposition is aware that, if elected based on promises to act like the Merkins, they'd be in deep sh*t because they wouldn't do anything about it either. My mom became good friends with the Wife of the Chief Justice of the French equivalent of our Supreme Court: when she expressed reservations to her friend about returning to Paris after noting that the Tours police were more vigorous in going after terrorists, the lady waved it off "What's the big deal? Just look under the seat when you get on the bus, and you'll be fine!" The elites are in big-time DENIAL. That is why Sabine Herrold was such a threat: she wasn't in on the scam, she wa asking the question (and others like it), and she was being heard. I'm sure she's being given the "cone of silence" treatment from the French media. |
| Posted by: Ptah 2005-01-28 10:50:37 AM |
| #1 Let me guess....hmmm? The Guardian? :-) |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-01-28 10:26:36 AM |