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Europe
France: U.S. a 'vital ally' (snicker)
2005-01-20
The French foreign minister has called for "a new trans-Atlantic relationship" between the United States and its European allies. Too many challenges face the world for the two not to work together in addressing them, Michel Barnier told CNN, but said France will not bow to the will of the United States. "We are allies. Alliance is not submission."

"We have to work together in the broader sense, and probably in what I call a new trans-Atlantic relationship, and get in the habit to talk more to each other -- even when we don't agree, because that happens -- to talk more about politics," he said Wednesday. Relations between France and the United States took a blow after the two disagreed over the war in Iraq. The "French-bashing" that followed the disagreement may have hurt U.S.-French ties, Barnier said. "It's not fair to ridicule France. France and the U.S. are friends and allies in the world, in history, since the beginning. Once again, alliance is not submission and we can disagree on certain subjects. We didn't agree on Iraq. Frankly ... I say and repeat that President (Jacques) Chirac's state of mind and my own is to look ahead and not in the rear-view mirror."

Asked whether the French are willing to compromise, Barnier said, "The French can change and the Americans can change. A discussion should be something frank, direct, lucid, where each one can make an effort. ... I heard my colleague Condoleezza Rice say to the Senate herself that the American administration will use more multilateral dialogue in diplomacy rather than unilateral talk." But, he said, France will not make a "one-way compromise."

"The U.S. can't be alone to face the challenge of terrorism, poverty, development, instability in the world -- we need to be together," Barnier said. "And why are we allies? We're allies to face that together. I think American people are lucid, realistic and pragmatic. We have to see that the alliance between Europeans and Americans is vital, and it should serve peace, freedom and democracy."
Posted by:tipper

#30  I skip the French colognes and designer stuff, and yeah, I look at the labels when I get some new foods. Very rarely is there no other alternative....
Posted by: Desert Blondie   2005-01-20 11:41:20 PM  

#29  The thing that always gets me is how the French president or foreign minister, or govt official always lectures the US about our relationship, even though we never ask for a lecture.

Many Kiwis have little love for the French after the French Secret Service commandos sunk the Rainbow Warrior in Auckland Harbor on July 10, 1985, resulting in one person drowning. The Frenchies made an $8.6 million restitution a while after the whole bruhaha died down. The Kiwis were pissed about the French attitudes of above ground or ocean located nuclear tests in French Polynesia. I believe the French dump their nuclear waste in some kind of containers there still. They certainly don't dump it in Frawnce.
Posted by: Alaska Paul   2005-01-20 10:35:47 PM  

#28  my only French wine fav was "Mouton Cadet" bordeaux - which translates as "young sheep" - made me uncomfortable as it was...
Posted by: Frank G   2005-01-20 10:03:10 PM  

#27  Good to know Frank, I bought it once, but was told afterward it wasn't very good, despite the clever label. So now I have two reasons not to trade it for the money Mr. Wife works so hard to earn.

I do check labels to some extent -- eg I traded in my L'Oreal haircolour for Clairol. Which turns out to do a better job on my hair anyway. And I minimize my purchases of French wine, although Mr. Wife has a few faves he just won't give up. I've reduced purchases of the German things we fell in love with when we lived over there, too. And our next car will be a Subaru.
Posted by: trailing wife   2005-01-20 9:54:55 PM  

#26  Me 5.
Posted by: Sobiesky   2005-01-20 9:27:10 PM  

#25  I boycott France, and if I accidentally boycott Quebec that's okay too.
Posted by: Tom   2005-01-20 9:26:16 PM  

#24  btw - Costco's "Fat Bastard" wine is French - with English Labels .... my research carries me far and wide
Posted by: Frank G   2005-01-20 9:20:36 PM  

#23  I do my best to boycott france as completely as I can.
Posted by: docob   2005-01-20 9:19:10 PM  

#22  me too - Michel needs to be forgiven, his task was to put lipstick on the pig that is Franco US-envy relations...
Posted by: Frank G   2005-01-20 9:05:43 PM  

#21  Same for China. And Germany. And Spain. I'd include Russia but I hate caviar and have no way to know where my gasoline came from.
Posted by: .com   2005-01-20 9:00:39 PM  

#20  Me.
Posted by: .com   2005-01-20 8:58:06 PM  

#19  Ok Rantburgers, raise your hands. How many of you closely examine labels of foodstuffs and other products to make sure they aren't of French origin, hence ineligible for purchase?
Posted by: Classical_Liberal   2005-01-20 8:56:30 PM  

#18  It’s not fair to ridicule France.

It might not be fair... but it is easy.
Posted by: tu3031   2005-01-20 12:59:55 PM  

#17   France exports $28 billion worth of goods and imports $19 billion worth of American products

There are always other suppliers -- if not currently in production, then can be up and running and approved within a year (Mr. Wife has been involved in this kind of work, so I know whereof I speak). The French need us twice as much as we need them by the figures given... to whom else would they sell that much product? For that matter, they've already seen how that works with their wine industry. When the Americans spontaneously boycotted French products, then American, Australian, Spanish, Italian, Chilean and other wines of good quality quickly filled the gap -- and the French market will never recover those customers. It can work with eg chemical suppliers in the same way.
Posted by: trailing wife   2005-01-20 12:28:18 PM  

#16  WA - When they finally get a government up and running for 100 years without slipping into tyranny, maybe I'll listen to them. But I doubt they'll be able to manage it.

France -- on it's Fifth Republic
America -- silly cowboys still on their first
Posted by: Desert Blondie   2005-01-20 11:41:33 AM  

#15  "The U.S. can’t be alone to face the challenge of terrorism, poverty, development, instability in the world -- we need to be together,"

I'll wager that French colonialism contributed to part of the terrorism, poverty, and instability in the world. Indochina, Algeria, Haiti, Syria, Lebannon, Cote d'Ivoire, Chad, Congo... Maybe THEY should start fixing their mess instead of just talking about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_colonial_empire
Posted by: Tom   2005-01-20 11:41:07 AM  

#14  Thats true. Apart from money of course:
Jeez, a billion here, a billion there, pretty soon you'll be talking about some serious money.

I for one would write them off out of spite. But I'm a bastard that way.
We are much more a major partner to them, than they to us. Perhaps they need to be reminded of their place.
Hows that for pissed Merkin arrogance?
Posted by: JerseyMike   2005-01-20 11:17:41 AM  

#13  Both nations are broadly batting for the same (western, democratic, capitalist) side after all.

Well, the Phrench sure fooled me.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama   2005-01-20 11:04:41 AM  

#12  "it seems foolish to alienate a major trading partner"

Golly, I wonder why the French didn't think of that when we they were busy conspiring against us at every turn in the run-up to Iraq (and since)?
Posted by: Crusader   2005-01-20 10:55:37 AM  

#11  --French-bashing" --

has this idiot ever even heard of the internet?

Those who pay attion know how they "feel."
Posted by: anonymous2u   2005-01-20 10:36:59 AM  

#10  Both nations are broadly batting for the same (western, democratic, capitalist) side after all.

I suspect the French would be deeply insulted by your applying the word "capitalist" to them. "Western" and "democratic" would probably tick some of them off, too.
Posted by: Robert Crawford   2005-01-20 10:16:30 AM  

#9  Lol, well okay then. Not.
Posted by: .com   2005-01-20 9:48:14 AM  

#8  I'm fairly neutral on the subject of Franco-US realations but, as a moderate and a capitalist, it seems foolish to alienate a major trading partner. Both nations are broadly batting for the same (western, democratic, capitalist) side after all.
Posted by: Winged Avenger   2005-01-20 9:45:17 AM  

#7  WA - Were money the only consideration, and your source a tad more neutral (almost anyone else would be preferable, heh), you would have a rock solid argument.

But there is much more to consider than money, regards France and how Americans should view our relationship. I, for one, already forgo buying anything that I know is a product of any company with French ownership. I have done this for some time now - since the French perfidy in the UN and their attempts to sabotage NATO vis-a-vis Turkey's request for Patriot missiles (pre-war and pre-Turkish perfidy in Gul-fool's deal with France for EU membership support). I can add much more to it since the Iraq War began.

Yes, they can keep their billions.
Posted by: .com   2005-01-20 9:23:06 AM  

#6  France doesn't see that antipathy for France is not embodied in George Bush-it is growing among rank and file Americans.

This is the same formula they've been using since November:

Listen to us, we don't have to listen to you. Be respectful to us, we will be provocative to you. Unilateral action is wrong-America needs the world's help; then follow our "buts"-but no allegiance, but no transparency and legality, but no allied militarily policy. Then the everready pickpocketing hand in the sleeve of a socialist coming for America to put the world economy right. In return, France will donate its astounding diplomatic finesse "whether you like it or not". Les politiciens de la France: les rois d'ineptitude, ingratitude et pomposite.
Posted by: Jules 187   2005-01-20 9:20:49 AM  

#5  "Lucid," eh? How bout some lucidity, aka transparency, about your government's dealings with Saddam in signing the TotalFinaElf sweetheart deal that guaranteed exclusive access for France to ~30% of Iraq's oil reserves on excessively generous terms?

Between the US and proud nations committed to advancing democracy there can be alliances. With whoring opportunists there can be only temporary overlapping of interests.
Posted by: lex   2005-01-20 9:13:29 AM  

#4   You have nothing to bring to the table Jacques, so off you go.

Thats true. Apart from money of course:

France exports $28 billion worth of goods and imports $19 billion worth of American products. The U.S. bilateral trade deficit has increased steadily since 1992, reaching a peak of $10.4 billion in 2001 before decreasing last year.

Between 1992-2002, France's annual rank as a supplier fluctuated between 8 th and 11 th place, its rank as a client between 7 th and 10 th place.

Aeronautics accounts for the largest portion of our bilateral trade. Contrary to a common misperception, agrifoods (essentially beverages) made up only 8 percent of French sales to the United States in 2002. Wine represents 3 percent of total sales.

But who needs their stinking French billions eh?

http://www.info-france-usa.org/franceus/trade.asp
Posted by: Winged Avenger   2005-01-20 9:11:01 AM  

#3  "The U.S. can’t be alone to face the challenge of terrorism, poverty, development, instability in the world -- we need to be together," Barnier said.

Maybe we can be alone, if we got all krazy nuclear on the problem. Or maybe not, if we play nice like we are doing now. Either way, we don't need France, especially the usual backtabbing version of France, and that's something that should be brutally and publicly pointed out.
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats   2005-01-20 9:08:20 AM  

#2  This is more transparent double-speak; actions define French motives, not words.
Posted by: Captain America   2005-01-20 9:02:14 AM  

#1   "And why are we allies?
Exactly. You have nothing to bring to the table Jacques, so off you go. Happy Dhimmitude to you.


Posted by: JerseyMike   2005-01-20 8:58:47 AM  

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