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Iraq-Jordan
Soldier may have killed in self-defence
2004-11-17
Comes as a surprise, huh?
Protection of injured combatants once they are out of action was a basic rule of warfare, but the US Marine who shot and killed a wounded and apparently unarmed Iraqi in Fallujah may have acted in self-defence, international legal experts said. Coalition forces in Iraq said the US military was investigating whether the Marine who shot the man in a mosque on Saturday "acted in self-defence, violated military law or failed to comply with the Law of Armed Conflict". The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), which upholds the Geneva Conventions on warfare, said today it was up to US officials to determine what happened in this case and that self-defence was possible. "It's clearly recognised that people in combat situations are under enormous strain," said ICRC spokesman Florian Westphal. "Obviously, we were not on the spot so we cannot judge the precise circumstances of what was being shown here."
Hey! Careful with that feather! You almost knocked me over!
But, Westphal said, the Geneva Conventions are clear: protection of wounded combatants once they are out of action is an absolute requirement
The question becomes whether he was out of action — or thought to be so.
The wounded man's status as a prisoner - which would have put him out of action - was unclear. A different Marine unit had come under fire from the mosque on Friday. Those Marines stormed the building, killing 10 men and wounding five, according to Kevin Sites, a reporter for the US television network NBC who was embedded with the Marines 3rd Battalion, 1st Regiment. Sites reported that the Marines treated the wounded, left them behind and continued on Friday with their drive to retake the city from insurgents battling US-led occupation forces. The same five men were still in the mosque on Saturday when members of the 3rd Battalion, 1st Regiment arrived.
Therefore they weren't prisoners at that time, though the first group had considered them out of combat.
Posted by:tipper

#15  Gee, Mikey - I bet Kofi and Kujo also contribute from their pot o' dictater fund the red thingy...whotta surprise to see you in this thread
Posted by: Frank G   2004-11-17 11:06:17 PM  

#14  I have been donating to Iraqi projects of Jim Hakes' Spirit of America.

Marines here are making a difference. Especially in the areas that they are sponsoring. Here is the link.
Posted by: Alaska Paul   2004-11-17 10:58:57 PM  

#13  
Most US bases have a Red Cross office. The Red Cross has done countless good deeds for US servicemen all over the world. When a serviceman wants to go home to attend a funeral and doesn't have the money to go, the Red Cross pays his way. When a serviceman has a family emergency, the Red Cross might give him a loan. And so on and so forth.

I'm sorry, Shipman, that your father passed on his petty anger about this petty incident (if it really happened, which I doubt) down to his children and grandchildren.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester   2004-11-17 10:44:22 PM  

#12  Growler:
When my Dad was on a Pacific transport returning from an operation the red crap (dad's words) gave him a razor and shaving cream and crackers, and demanded a receipt. The Salvation Army gave him $2 (10 percent of wages) and asked to be remembered in the future. The Salvation Army has been remember, the Rc despised even unto his grandchildren.
Posted by: Shipman   2004-11-17 5:30:48 PM  

#11  Why we Shoot the Possums.
From Belmont Club

As the war continued to take its toll, parents in Live Oak and Gilroy learned this week that their only sons had been killed in Iraq.
Marine Lance Cpl. Jeramy Ailes, 22, of Gilroy was killed Monday in Al-Fallujah by small arms fire.
``They had finished mopping up in Fallujah and they went back to double-check on some insurgents. From what we gathered, somebody playing possum jumped up and shot him,'' said his father, Joel Ailes, who learned of his death Monday evening. ``It's extremely hard.''
Posted by: Jack Bross   2004-11-17 4:41:04 PM  

#10  Note how the whole accusation depends entirely on the account of Kevin Sites. That the people were the same from one day to another, that they were not threatening, that they were "prisoners" etc. etc.

He is trying to set up the Marine. What's the penalty going to be for that?
Posted by: Kalle (kafir forever)   2004-11-17 3:11:57 PM  

#9  As a Marine Da Nang near 3rd Div,a an Army SGT. tried to get me to salute a RED Cross puke saying he had "officer" status.I refused.He took my name,rank and serial number.Next day,I was outa there with 2/3 and my Marine C.O. said screw them.
Posted by: crazyhorse   2004-11-17 1:38:00 PM  

#8  The Red Cross/(Red Crescent)upholds the Geneva Conventions on warfare- so how come their ambulances move terrorists and weapons in Palestine?
Posted by: Grunter   2004-11-17 11:52:23 AM  

#7  I once sent the Red Cross a photocopy of a check that I gave to the Salvation Army instead.
Posted by: 2b   2004-11-17 11:37:15 AM  

#6  Salvation Army is the way to go for donations. I actually worked as a bell-ringer one Christmas season while in college. One day two WWII vets stopped to chat with me, and each other. One had been in the Pacific, the other in Europe. One told how the Red Cross tent was charging GIs for donuts and coffee. The other told how the Red Cross had no room for him to sleep, but the head officer at the Salvation Army tent(s) gave up his own cot for him.

The Salvation army also did a FANTASTIC, and largley uncredited, job here in NYC post 9/11.
Posted by: growler   2004-11-17 11:27:47 AM  

#5  bar, it's the Salvation Army. They get to disasters faster than the RC and they don't waste time there blowing their own trumpet. And if you donate enough, I'm sure they'll give you a subscription to their magazine War Cry
Posted by: Mrs. Davis   2004-11-17 11:21:11 AM  

#4  I only donated to the RC once, for the Bali bombing victims. Next time, I'll find some other outfit besides the RC to send my $$$ to.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama   2004-11-17 11:03:21 AM  

#3  Hmm... where is the ICRC's (and HRW's) outrage about innocent civilians having their heads sawed off?

The Geneva Conventions do not apply to the terrorists.
Posted by: CrazyFool   2004-11-17 9:44:29 AM  

#2  I give my money to the Salvation Army now.
Posted by: Seafarious   2004-11-17 9:41:19 AM  

#1  The ICRC? Hell, I'll never do the Int'l Red Thingy Cross again. Who'da thunk it?

As for the others, especially someone who isn't embarrassed as hell by the title High Commissioner - well, sorry Em, but fug 'em. With a barbed-wire fence post. Dipped in pig shit.
Posted by: .com   2004-11-17 4:19:32 AM  

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