You have commented 358 times on Rantburg.

Your Name
Your e-mail (optional)
Website (optional)
My Original Nic        Pic-a-Nic        Sorry. Comments have been closed on this article.
Bold Italic Underline Strike Bullet Blockquote Small Big Link Squish Foto Photo
Submit your comments on this article
Europe
Real politics, at last?
2004-10-30
AMONG the roots of British wariness of the European Union, according to the late Hugo Young, was suspicion that it was all a "Catholic conspiracy, orchestrated from the Vatican".
Ahah! Papistry sneaking in the back door with a false nose and moustache, is it?
That prejudice, the writer maintained, was held by many prominent Britons, including Margaret Thatcher. It is true that many of the moving spirits of post-war European integration—Konrad Adenauer, Jacques Delors, Alcide de Gasperi and Robert Schuman—were devout Catholics. Their faith gave them a strong sense of the cultural and religious ties between Europeans that transcend national boundaries. The European flag of 12 yellow stars on a blue background also owes something to Catholicism. Arsene Heitz, who designed it in 1955, recently told Lourdes magazine that his inspiration had been the reference in the Book of Revelation, the New Testament's final section, to "a woman clothed with the sun...and a crown of twelve stars on her head."
Well, that certainly clinches it for me...
But Catholicism and the European ideal are in danger of undergoing a messy divorce. The immediate crisis has been caused by opposition in the European Parliament to the nomination of Rocco Buttiglione, an Italian politician and devout Catholic, as European Commissioner for justice and home affairs. At his confirmation hearings, Mr Buttiglione said he regarded homosexuality as a sin. He drew a clear distinction between a sin and a crime, and said that he would have no problems enforcing Europe's Charter of Fundamental Rights. But his remarks, combined with other allegedly disparaging comments on single mothers and working women, sparked outrage from some parliamentarians; such a man should not hold the justice portfolio, they said, in an EU that calls itself a "union of values"...
Because he maintains a few personal standards of right and wrong? Oh, I can well understand. If you have such standards, next thing you know people will be expecting you to adhere to them. Can't have that, now. Though it's probably not too much to worry about; his objection seems to be to immorality, not amorality. Or did they leave that part out?
Posted by:tipper

#11   Also, the idea was never "oxymoronic", except to those who had a very limited view of biology. The idea of a male-affecting genetic combination passing through female lines, is very old. I remember mentioning it in Rantburg itself many months ago when people objected to the idea of homosexuality being genetic back then -- and my own knowledge of biology is strictly highschool-level.
Posted by: Dr Science   2004-10-30 8:28:17 PM  

#10  What's "Peshawar"? I've seen the reference a couple times before, but I don't get it

slang phrase adapted to RB - by LH, IIRC ...as in: what's that got to do with the price of AK47's in Peshawar?
Posted by: Frank G   2004-10-30 2:41:48 PM  

#9  What's "Peshawar"? I've seen the reference a couple times before, but I don't get it.

Also, the idea was never "oxymoronic", except to those who had a very limited view of biology. The idea of a male-affecting genetic combination passing through female lines, is very old. I remember mentioning it in Rantburg itself many months ago when people objected to the idea of homosexuality being genetic back then -- and my own knowledge of biology is strictly highschool-level.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2004-10-30 2:08:49 PM  

#8  I suppose just having gay individuals breed at all is going to have a bigger impact on population growth than female relatives of gay men having a slightly increased fertility rate, however that factor alone would tend to drive a 'perfectly' homophobic society to complete male homosexuality in n generations, barring the influence of other factors influencing hetero/homo male reproductive success. A degree of tolerance of homosexual behaviour might create a hetero/homo balance such as we see in most of the world today.

/Peshawar
Posted by: Bulldog   2004-10-30 1:54:37 PM  

#7  Recent research apparently indicating that the female relatives of homosexual men have more offspring, thus supporting the previously considered oxymoronic 'gay gene' hypothesis, perhaps also explains to a degree the success of gay-bashing as a historically successful meme in otherwise relatively enlightened and liberal societies. Suppressing homosexual behaviour and pressuring gay men into heterosexual relationships helps maintain 'gayness' in a society and may also, further, boost group fertility. It's fairly obvious that homophobia will work to sustain homosexuality in a population (if you accept that homosexuality is genetic, or that is it is in part determined by genetic factors) by artificially increasing the reproductive success of gay individuals. Has it also boosted societies' successes by helping them outbreed their more hetero/homo relaxed neighbours?

/Peshawar (and just my two cents)
Posted by: Bulldog   2004-10-30 1:48:16 PM  

#6  Buttiglione has the right to have whatever moral values he wants, religiously-derived or not. If he think that homosexuality is a sin, that's his right. If he thought that all Jews/Americans/Red Sox fans will burn in hell that'd be his right too.

And the elected Members of the European Parliament have the right to vote him down when they disagree with those supposed "values". Especially when it is felt they will conflict with his job description.

Tell me, would you have no problem whatsoever with a person who believed that the skin-color of black people is a sign of their having fallen in the disfavour of God, taking up a post of chairman in a racial equality board?

How about a person who thought that women were inherently inferior taking up a position concerning gender equality?

But hey I'm sure you people take it as a granted that "personal standards" of politicians are there only for show, and never have anything to do whatsoever with how they perform their jobs.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2004-10-30 11:31:18 AM  

#5  Some less-than-organized thoughts I recently had about the current morality-in-politics non-debate:

http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com/nfff/2004/10/todays_bleat_li.html.
Posted by: Phil Fraering   2004-10-30 9:53:55 AM  

#4  Inappropriate for Europe to be united under a banner of 12 stars. It should have been a banner of a crescent moon.
Posted by: V is for Victory   2004-10-30 9:47:09 AM  

#3  
Posted by: Mark Espinola   2004-10-30 7:50:19 AM  

#2  This story has been getting a lot of play. For some reason, whenever I see the name Rocco Buttiglione, I can't help but think of Joey Buttafucco.
Posted by: Classical_Liberal   2004-10-30 5:21:17 AM  

#1  Heh.

Pass the popcorn.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut   2004-10-30 3:05:16 AM  

00:00