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| Iraq-Jordan |
| US launches massive Falluja raid |
| 2004-09-25 |
| At least seven people have been killed in US strikes on the volatile Iraqi city of Falluja, hospital sources say. They said at least 11 other people were injured, as US planes, tanks and artillery units shelled the city west of the capital, Baghdad. Several buildings in the city centre were destroyed, witnesses said. The US military said it targeted a meeting place for fighters loyal to terror suspect Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, blamed for masterminding many attacks. "Intelligence sources reported that terrorists were using the site to plan additional attacks against Iraqi citizens and multinational forces," a US military statement said. The statement added that no civilians were reported in the area at the time. The US accuses Zarqawi, head of the Tawhid and Jihad movement, of leading al-Qaeda operations in Iraq and for being behind numerous car bombings and kidnappings. Zarqawi is believed to be behind much of the terror & violence in Iraq This week his group beheaded two American hostages and has threatened to kill British hostage Kenneth Bigley. American troops have been carried out frequent raids on Falluja in an attempt to defeat him and his fighters. US officials have also offered a $25m bounty for information leading to Zarqawi's capture. The city, about 40 miles (65km) west of Baghdad, in the so-called Sunni triangle, has been a centre of some of the strongest resistance to coalition forces. US forces have not entered Falluja since pulling back in April after a three-week siege of the city. Hundreds died and thousands fled as US marines and Iraqi insurgents fought in built up civilian areas. |
| Posted by:Mark Espinola |
| #32 Look, all you pinheads talking about MOAB's, listen up. You can count the number of MOAB's produced on one hand and still have a digit or two left over. It was an experimental device with more propaganda value than real life use. It is impractical to produce in real life deployment quantities, and even more impractical to deploy and deliver. So, all this: "Let's use a MOAB" talk is nonsense. So...STFU already! HB |
| Posted by: Heartless Bastard 2004-09-25 11:31:05 PM |
| #31 [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted] |
| Posted by: Heartless Bastard TROLL 2004-09-25 11:31:05 PM |
| #30 Take her down! |
| Posted by: Anymousse6646 2004-09-25 11:09:44 PM |
| #29 MOAB are better for that purpos e- FAE weaponry will penetrate into buildings and detonate WITHIN them. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2004-09-25 9:10:51 PM |
| #28 And can we just leave the MOABs out of this? It's nothing but a propaganda bomb. Three buffs are way better. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2004-09-25 6:37:44 PM |
| #27 This is not what I would describe as a "massive" operation. This is more like poppimg a pimple on Jihad's ass. A massive operation will involve mortars, combined with close in aircraft support, a cardoning off of the city, and troop engagement. Stayed tuned folks, I have my Fallujah calender marked for November 10th. |
| Posted by: Capt America 2004-09-25 4:53:33 PM |
| #26 Amen, Old Patriot. Fallujah delenda est. |
| Posted by: RWV 2004-09-25 4:42:54 PM |
| #25 I think Fallujah will disappear after the January elections in Iraq. I believe everyone's sick and tired of the stinking place. If there are any Iraqi civilians - true civilians, not part-time jihadis or Saddam retainers - left in the city, they need to move out like yesterday. I would love to see a cordon of steel ringing the city at about 10 miles, and wave after wave of fighter and bomber aircraft reducing the city to a sand-filled crater. Once that's done, plow the loose sand, sow it with salt, and pave it. Anyone trying to leave gets 30 rounds of 25mm from a Bradley or an Apache Longbow. Any vehicles trying to leave get smashed with a Hellfire. NO ONE THERE WHEN THE FIGHTING STARTS SHOULD LEAVE ALIVE. We need to show, to the entire world, that we can be as cruel and vicious as any opponent, and it's only that we prefer not to that we aren't like that everywhere. It will also send the clear message that we won't hesitate when we've had enough. The Arab mentality reveres strength, and treats the type of restraint we've demonstrated with scorn. We need to let them know that we can and will be as ruthless as they are if we're forced to be. It's a lesson that's long overdue in that region. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot 2004-09-25 2:56:35 PM |
| #24 Different geography, different logistics. Remember - in Afghanistan, they had Pakistan backing the rebels, and the US picking up the tab and doing the training and some operations. Sort of like the US had the Soviet Union and China against us in Vietnam. That doesnt exist in Chechnya or Iraq - only the "hostile minor power" in the region is Iran (now that Iraq is out of the way). |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2004-09-25 1:21:11 PM |
| #23 It didn't work for the Russians in Afghanistan. Afganistan and Iraq are different. Might as well be comparing the Battle of Jutland with the Battle of Tsushima. |
| Posted by: Pappy 2004-09-25 1:09:55 PM |
| #22 But, we don't currently choose to operate that way. |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2004-09-25 12:53:04 PM |
| #21 It didn't work for the Russians in Afghanistan. |
| Posted by: Tom 2004-09-25 12:47:17 PM |
| #20 B52's not needed. If we wanted to level Falluja, and didnt gie a rat's ass about the poplation it it, we'd simply drop a MOAB or 3. Or, more systematically, line up all that idle field artillery, hub-to-hub, and walk a barrage from one side of the town to the other, in 10 meter increments. It woudlnt involve any risk to the US, and woudl give the locals a chance to get the hell out - and drive them to a prison camp built on the ohter side of town, meant to hold them until we coudl sort the sheep from the goats. But, we don't operate that way. The Russians do. And it works. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2004-09-25 12:36:52 PM |
| #19 BBC-You need a better understanding of the dynamics between media, popular opinion, and the social structure of community. With definite thanks due in part to my recent Rantburg edumahcation, I have to say that the BBC has a perfect "understanding of the dynamics between media, popular opinion, and the social structure of community." This is what makes their persistent exaggeration of damage and |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-09-25 12:17:40 PM |
| #18 The last bombing raids that could legitimately be called massive were the B-52 raids on Hanoi over Christmas 1972 (officially LINEBACKER II but better known to crewdogs as the "11 day war"). Thanks to the vagaries of time and the vicissitudes of START II all we have left are the B-52Hs, but I think they would be sufficient to pulverize Fallujah. |
| Posted by: RWV 2004-09-25 11:47:39 AM |
| #17 SOPD: "The BBC intentionally lies to forment anti-US sentiments...", the repercussions of which may be increased anti-American sentiment among the Iraqis. BBC-You need a better understanding of the dynamics between media, popular opinion, and the social structure of community. Your hands and the international community's hands are not so clean WRT the turbulent and violent situation on the ground in Iraq today. Ascher: ..."for me both Europe’s fake-optimism and its very real self-righteousness sound like people whistling in the dark. There’s some kind of correlation between impotence and loudness...what does it make 150 thousands Parisians imagine that to march along some Parisian boulevards crying slogans can in any way stop 150 thousand American troops from invading a country half a world away? That was their show of strength and I’m still trying to imagine how they felt afterwards as soon as they realized...that what they did was, in practical terms, useless, futile, a waste of time." Some folks think they can chant themselves free of the real life they are grounded to on Earth. In their world, bears don't chomp a fish in two for breakfast, grandparents don't die in heat waves while the "kids" bask in the sun, money rains down on them as they lie under a tree, and misguided foreign policies, which assert that terrorists are misunderstood and Americans are the very essence of evil, don't endanger their nations, their very existence. |
| Posted by: jules 2 2004-09-25 11:28:31 AM |
| #16 SOT: falluja has to be hama'd as in hama syria--where the allawhites of the assad clan killed 20-30k islamists and muslim brotherhood types --their families and their pets--its the middle east fer christ's sake--hama rules--falluja delenda est--turn it into a sand pit--where's hulugu khan when you need him!! The Great Khan never had to stand for election. |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2004-09-25 10:53:00 AM |
| #15 falluja has to be hama'd as in hama syria--where the allawhites of the assad clan killed 20-30k islamists and muslim brotherhood types --their families and their pets--its the middle east fer christ's sake--hama rules--falluja delenda est--turn it into a sand pit--where's hulugu khan when you need him!! |
| Posted by: SON OF TOLUI 2004-09-25 10:50:36 AM |
| #14 HUK: I can't understand why it's taking so long to get an Iraqi force together to help to tackle the job. Not long at all - it takes about a year to get a soldier trained up sufficiently to tackle combat duty. In Iraq, there's also the problem of political reliability. The best recruits are the ones who used to work for Saddam, but it is also these recruits that may have to be rooted out. Saddam's internal security apparatus is still in place - it wouldn't do to have the army filled with his agents. We don't need these guys carrying a coup, which is how Saddam and some of his predecessors came to power. |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2004-09-25 10:36:05 AM |
| #13 Nelson Ascher had a good rant about the BBC on his blog yesterday. Pretty much backs up everything being said here. |
| Posted by: tipper 2004-09-25 10:18:12 AM |
| #12 Media black out and second world war tactics.. that's what's needed to lance this boil. I can't understand why it's taking so long to get an Iraqi force together to help to tackle the job. |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-09-25 10:03:21 AM |
| #11 Mey be a good idea to waste a city if it provides a haven to terrorists persistantly. It will put forward a reaction they undersatnd. I will be curious to see how many people will give refuge to terrs after they have seen a city completely destroyed for doing so. It is a Hearts & Minds campaign. Let their minds prevail over their hearts. |
| Posted by: Fawad 2004-09-25 9:47:58 AM |
| #10 Howard UK: 8 dead... phew, that's massive all-right. You know - I alway thought that Brits had this thing for understatement. During the Korean War, Max Hastings wrote that a British unit that was about to be overrun reported its situation as "a bit sticky". Now the BBC is writing about a targetted artillery attack as a massive one. What I want to know is whether the article was translated from the Arabic - that alone would explain the tendency to exaggerate, given the Arab fondness for overstatement. |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2004-09-25 9:46:37 AM |
| #9 8 dead... phew, that's massive all-right. Moonscape material. Anyone listening to the Beeb on the radio or TV compare the number of times they use the phrase 'women and children' with the number of times they use 'terrorists' in conjunction with military action by the US or Israel. |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-09-25 9:32:53 AM |
| #8 I can't reconcile the use of the word "massive" to describe artillery and air attacks that kill perhaps a dozen people. What would you call the World Trade Center bombings? A really, really, really massive attack? How about Dresden, in which 40,000 were killed? |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2004-09-25 9:29:21 AM |
| #7 I agree that NPR should have its govt subsidy ended. It has become another "alphabet" channel. Besides, private donations have provided the great majority of funding for years. The BBC also needs to be weaned of funding. No editorial and fiscal responsibility makes for spoiled children, so to speak. These so-called news outlets need to be responsible for the content and consequences of what they transmit. I am talking accountability here. |
| Posted by: Alaska Paul 2004-09-25 9:15:00 AM |
| #6 We may see the return of the 1000 bomber raids. Though now, the same tonnage can be dropped by 50 B52s. Then the BBC will have something "massive" to bitch about. |
| Posted by: ed 2004-09-25 8:01:34 AM |
| #5 As far as I'm concerned the British people can decide what to do with the BBC, but over here NPR and PBS should simply be scrapped! If there's truely a need or demand for what these broadcast entities do then the free market will rush to provide it. I also LOVE Sock's Dresden analogy, it seems obvious that these bastards need a good dose of the MOAB treatment! I wander what Falluja would look like after 50 of those bad boys were dropped? |
| Posted by: RJB in JC MO 2004-09-25 7:27:24 AM |
| #4 we should start demanding that the money put into NPR or BBC is transferred to provide a true medium of the people - streaming internet. |
| Posted by: 2B 2004-09-25 6:51:42 AM |
| #3 your spot on sock puppet of doom, wish the BBC was scrapped,its gone loony lefty it seems to me. |
| Posted by: Shep UK 2004-09-25 4:38:32 AM |
| #2 Never doubted it for a second, man. |
| Posted by: badanov 2004-09-25 4:22:37 AM |
| #1 (1) If Falluja doesn't look like Dresden in WW2 after the RAF bombbed with thousands of resultant fatalites it's not massive. (2)If the BBC claims it's massive then it's not. In short it's iresponsible hyperbole The BBC intentionally lies to forment anti-US sentiments and hate all over the world. The BBC hates the US. The BBC thinks the citizens of the US are stupid cows because most of the people in Europe are. The BBC is a propaganda organ of the islamo-fascists and neo-communists funded subscribers who agree with it's agenda. If you think I am off topic go read Have Your Say at the BBC. Then tell me I am untruthhful about the BBC and by extention the average citizen of the U.K. who supports them. |
| Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-09-25 4:19:02 AM |