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Africa: Subsaharan
Nigerian Muslim leader: 300 killed
2004-05-05
Nigeria’s top Muslim leader said on Wednesday that 300 people, mostly Muslims, were killed in Sunday’s attacks by Christian militia in the town of Yelwa in the central Plateau state. Justice Abdulkadir Orire, secretary general of the Jamaatu Nasril Islam, described the killings in the remote farming town as "genocide" and said they took the death toll from three months of ethnic violence there to at least 700-800 people.
When the deaders are turbans it's genocide. When they're the perps they're reacting to unbearable provocation...
"The information we have is that 300 people died and they are mostly Muslims. We call it a genocide because they are killing women and children," Orire told Reuters in a telephone interview from his Kaduna headquarters. The conflict between the Christian Tarok tribe and Muslim Fulani is rooted in competing claims over the fertile farmlands at the heart of Africa’s most populous nation, and it is fueled by religious and ethnic differences between the groups.
We usually just refer to it as Islam's bloody border.
Orire said Christian militia used machine guns in the attacks which left most of Yelwa’s buildings including a mosque destroyed, and criticized the Plateau state governor for apparently inciting violence. He said police stationed in Yelwa had been withdrawn four days before the attack, despite complaints from local Muslims that they were surrounded by Taroks and tensions were rising. "It seems the governor is supporting the move. We heard that the government said non-indigenes should move out of the area," Orire said. "That is very bad. He should look after everyone in the state and not just his own tribe."
Unless he's a turban, of course...
Nigeria is the world’s seventh largest oil exporter. Ethnic fighting has hit the OPEC country’s oil production in the past, but Yelwa is hundreds of miles from any oilfields.
So that's pretty much extraneous verbiage, isn't it? Who the hell writes this stuff?
A Reuters correspondent in Yelwa on Tuesday saw thousands of Muslims lining the body-strewn streets chanting religious slogans and vowing dire revenge™ on the attackers. The state deputy governor, who visited Yelwa on Tuesday, ordered soldiers to shoot troublemakers on sight and announced a dusk-to-dawn curfew. His heavily armed convoy, which was also carrying workers to dig mass graves, could not stop in the town because of the stench heightened tensions, a policeman in the convoy said. President Olusegun Obasanjo ordered the police to send hundreds of riot police to the area. Analysts say the feud between the Tarok farmers and nomadic Fulani cattle herders has been fueled by irresponsible allocation of land by the government and growing lawlessness across Nigeria. Yelwa has already witnessed one of the most horrific massacres of the conflict, when 48 Christians were killed by Fulani militia in a church that was later burned in February.
But that was understandable because the turbans were provoked, y'see..
The last three months have seen the bloodiest fighting in the region since the state capital, Jos, was torn apart by ethnic violence in 2001 that killed 1,000 people. Tens of thousands have already had to leave their homes in Plateau and thousands now live in temporary accommodation in schools and other public buildings across three states. Ethnic, religious and political violence in Nigeria has killed more than 11,000 people since the election of Obasanjo in 1999 ended 15 years of military rule.
Isn’t it strange how it’s "genocide" only when Muslims are the ones getting stropped? Oh, sorry, it’s being said because "they are killing women and children." Where were Moslem protests back in April of this year?
1500 Christians killed in Nigeria -7/4/04

Religious violence that erupted in the Nigerian state of Plateau a few weeks ago has expanded and resulted in the deaths of eight pastors and 1,500 Christian believers, and the destruction of 173 churches, according to a bulletin released by Open Doors USA.

Religious intolerance is its own reward. Islam is about to find this out in a really big way.

I tend to doubt it. I imagine it'll continue to see-saw back and forth with Muslims attacking and Christians reacting, but gradually losing ground. Christianity isn't a crusading religion anymore, whereas Islam is.

Maybe in the western world, but evangelical christianity in Africa is still new and they haven't had time fot it to be watered down yet.
Posted by:Zenster

#26  Yeap.entertainment of the highest order,Ship
Posted by: raptor   2004-05-05 7:04:10 PM  

#25  A Good Troll Fight is Extremely Rare.

Ima remember when Aris and Murat went head to head over Cyprus. It was a magic moment. I'm still picking kernels out of my teeths.
Posted by: Shipman   2004-05-05 5:55:26 PM  

#24  Either embrace Bush

LOL. I just wanna hold hands.
Posted by: Shipman   2004-05-05 5:53:14 PM  

#23  Liberalhawk - careful there: Raj and Aris have a doozy of a dispute in the article "Israel Kills Hamas Top Man"
Posted by: BigEd   2004-05-05 5:30:18 PM  

#22  Good man, liberalhawk!
And Raj, the term "flame war" is for trivial matters.
What we're discussing here is substantive and important.
Whole different deal, really.
Posted by: Jen   2004-05-05 5:14:24 PM  

#21  nah, raj, valuable contributors can enter into a flamewar - like when Aris and Bulldog go at it, for example. A troll fight is a subset of a flamewar, involving two trolls of various opinions. I confess, to flaming, and almost trolling, by calling the zenster - jen dispute a troll fight. I will refrain in future for the sake of the site.
Posted by: Liberalhawk   2004-05-05 5:10:56 PM  

#20  INTEROFFICE MEMORANDUM

To: My Fellow Rantburgers

From: Raj

RE: Use of Terminology


Old phrase - Troll fight

New phrase - Flame war

Thanks.
Posted by: Raj   2004-05-05 4:55:59 PM  

#19  Liberalhawk, most of us can't figure *which* group Zenny's in-that's the problem, which is why I asked him to pick.
He professes hatred for Bush, is mute about the rest of the Admin, and yet keeps trying to egg on our country as exemplified by RBers (led by whom as CiC, only Zenny knows. Himself, I guess.) to "go nuclear" on all Muslims everywhere.
It's vexing to read and try to process to say the least.
Posted by: Jen   2004-05-05 4:15:35 PM  

#18  Political reality intervenes...gotta have the veggies with the red meat once in a while
Posted by: Frank G   2004-05-05 4:12:22 PM  

#17  well, er yeah, thats my point Jen. But there are some red meaters who think that the admin is on their side. Seems to me theyre the ones with the consistency problem.
Posted by: Liberalhawk   2004-05-05 4:10:27 PM  

#16  CG - well I agree with you (WRT Indonesia, Islam, etc) but you do see that there are a number of other posters who take a much harder line on Islam than you or I do, and who yet support the administration, and quite loudly at that. I think they are rather more inconsistent than Zenster.
Posted by: Liberalhawk   2004-05-05 4:09:28 PM  

#15  and oh yeah, by Wolfie I certainly mean Paul Wolfowitz - i mean no disrespect in calling him that - I think hes the smartest dude in the admin, and one of the reasons i may yet vote for Bush in November.
Posted by: Liberalhawk   2004-05-05 4:07:12 PM  

#14  Nor do I, liberalhawk, but your friend Zenster is in the group you just described.
Posted by: Jen   2004-05-05 4:07:10 PM  

#13  He's not going to alienate these people by denigrating their religion because it's been hijacked by the radical Waahabs to wage terror war.

But several posters here dont seem to think that Wahabism is the problem, they think ALL islam is the problem, and that the problem is rooted deep in the Koran itself, NOT in the ideology of Wahab.



We all know who the Enemy is.
The "red meat" crowd--by this, do you mean most Americans, the "silent majority"?


By the red meat crowd i mean the ones who group all muslims, sunni,shia, wahabi, etc into one great lump, who make vile remarks about muslims and islam, etc,


American tolerace for Islam (as opposed to Islamism) for the benefit of the countries we're militarily involved in and are concerned with in the Middle East.

the people i refer to as the 'red meat' crowd think all those people in all those countries hate us anyway, regardless of what we do or say. That the only distinction is those who hate us openly, versus those who will turn and stab us in the back. From which they deduce that we might as well use both scorched earth tactics and rhetoric. Now I dont agree, but I dont see this as inconsistent.
Posted by: Liberalhawk   2004-05-05 4:05:27 PM  

#12  Liberalhawk, I have pointed out elsewhere (here at RB) that the largest Muslim nation on the face of the earth practices a fairly eclectic and tolerant form of Islam (SIDE NOTE: The human rights abuses of Indonesia have far more to do with politics, corruption, and culture, than with Islam). Zenster's gung ho, "pro-military" "solutions(?)" throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water, and (accordingly) make me question his sincerity. Regarding Islam as a religion, textual criticism and hermeneutics have been used in more than one religion to create doctrinal change (maybe it can be used in a positive way, in this case).
Posted by: cingold   2004-05-05 3:45:02 PM  

#11  You're dancing Liberalhawk (typical Lib).
You're expecting Bush and members of his Administration (I take it that by "Wolfie" you mean Paul Wolfowitz?) to take extreme positions in public on radical Islam.
That's not going to happen--at least not yet.
President Bush realizes that there are both Muslim-Americans and over a billion Muslims worldwide in the world in which the USA moves as the lone hyperpower.
He's not going to alienate these people by denigrating their religion because it's been hijacked by the radical Waahabs to wage terror war.
We all know who the Enemy is.
The "red meat" crowd--by this, do you mean most Americans, the "silent majority"?--who "get it" without Bush screaming about it like Zipperhead don't need for the President to declare a "crusade."
And he's trying to keep a benign face on American tolerace for Islam (as opposed to Islamism) for the benefit of the countries we're militarily involved in and are concerned with in the Middle East. (This IS a World War, you know.)
The folks in Afghanistan, Iraq and the rest of the Middle East, Africa and Asia are watching our every move and most of them have had one form or another of Islam shoved down their throats for decades, if not centuries.
Among the concepts that America exports is RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE and Secular Government, along with capitalism and democracy.
When you are fighting an enemy whose guiding principle is Religious IN-tolerance, this is critical.
Posted by: Jen   2004-05-05 3:30:52 PM  

#10  oops, should have been "to me Jen"
Posted by: Liberalhawk   2004-05-05 3:28:08 PM  

#9  zen seems pretty damn consistent to me, Zen. "I hate all muslims, Bush dont, so screw Bush" Rather too LGFish for my tastes, but not inconsistent at all. Not very politically savvy I suppose - but then you might as well call Nader voters inconsistent, and closet rightists. Or even Dean voters. No monopoly on ideological rigidity trumping political savvy. Of course the ideologically rigid tend to say that theyre more concerned with altering the long run dialogue than with the outcome of a given election. "dimes worth of difference" and all that. And sometimes their right.

Whether they are this time is too hard tell. When youve got one candidate who regularly switches positions, against another whose own administration manages to run at least two competing foreign policies simultaneously (and dont tell me that this is the product of the liberal press - you could gather it just reading the Weekly Standard, the National Review, and the Washington Time)
Posted by: Liberalhawk   2004-05-05 3:26:48 PM  

#8  CG - why? The whole set of clash of civilizations, Islam is THE problem, islamonut, and related memes seems to me to be almost DIAMETRICALLY opposite to everything the Bush admin is trying to accomplish in the WOT. Of course from the point of view of most of people who hold these viewpoints ANY dem is a hundred times worse, on domestic even more than on foreign policy grounds. So theres more than a bit of "cognitive dissonance" going on. Which is usually resolved by the claim that Bush doesnt really mean what he says, that he says "its a war against those whove hijacked a great religion" just cause thats PC, etc. If you look at Condis past, or Wolfies, or anyone elses in the admin, you just dont see the red meat attitude toward Islam you see here, and in many cases (very notably Wolfie's) you see the exact opposite. Maybe Zenster just realizes this, as most of the red meat crowd dont.
Posted by: Liberalhawk   2004-05-05 3:20:02 PM  

#7  Â "Right wing troll fight!!!!!
Not really, lh.
It's an absolute plea for CONSISTENCY of thought, ideology and beliefs.
Posted by: Jen   2004-05-05 3:15:18 PM  

#6  IMO, the history of past posting suggests that Zenster probably has ulterior motives -- he voices strong support (to the point of overkill) for positions obviously near and dear to many who visit this blog -- and then (here and there, thrown in as if afterthoughts) mocks Bush and the validity of his presidency, without any proof to back up the slander. Zenster, just because you sound pro-military doesn’t mean you’re not just a DU operative (or equivalent) out to slam Bush. The lack of realism to the gung ho, “pro-military” solutions you spout makes me question your sincerity. Please persuade me otherwise, if you think I’m wrong.
Posted by: cingold   2004-05-05 3:08:00 PM  

#5  Right wing troll fight!!!!!
Posted by: Liberalhawk   2004-05-05 3:00:26 PM  

#4  My "payback's a bitch" meter isn't even anywhere near its red-line yet. However, my "hurt 'em bad" indicator board is all bright green lights.
You know, I don't know how much more of your Nuke Nut babbling I can take.
It's gotten to the point where I dread seeing your name on the comments because I know it's some hot-headed "Bombs away with Curtis Lemay" spew.
Look: Either admit that you've been wrong--DEAD WRONG- about President Bush and the job he's been doing as the elected President and as the Commander-in-Chief
or
Shut up with the "Kill them all and let God or John Kerry sort them out."
John Kerry isn't gonna fight the WOT in any way.
He wants to turn US troops over to the UN for "peacekeeping missions" in 3rd world hellholes like Rwanda.
You CANNOT have it both ways.
Either embrace Bush and realize that he's pursuing the war as aggressively as he can, but not as crazily proactive as you'd like
or
Stay with the Liberals and realize that they hate the Military and the use of the military for any reason other than 3rd party peacekeeping where US interests aren't involved.

Choose. Today.
Posted by: Jen   2004-05-05 2:58:56 PM  

#3  I tend to doubt it. I imagine it'll continue to see-saw back and forth with Muslims attacking and Christians reacting, but gradually losing ground. Christianity isn't a crusading religion anymore, whereas Islam is.

I doubt it's just me that foresees a massive backlash against Islam in all forms. If both sides are stupid enough to wait until there is a nuclear terror attack, there could be potentially devastating repercussions for all Muslims. They are nigh well pariahs as it stands. A few more atrocities and it will be open season in a nasty way.

My personal sympathy meter blew its coils on 9-11 and the tolerance meter is pegging more frequently every day. My "payback's a bitch" meter isn't even anywhere near its red-line yet. However, my "hurt 'em bad" indicator board is all bright green lights.
Posted by: Zenster   2004-05-05 2:45:16 PM  

#2  Damn. My sympathy meter seems to be dead. The "payback's a bitch" meter's running crazy, though.
Posted by: Robert Crawford   2004-05-05 12:52:11 PM  

#1  Jehadie brigades in Syria are being redirected by Jihadie Joint Central Command (JJCC) to Nigeria by a car-bomb convoy.

A senior spokesman for JJCC said that Nigeria is a holy place where the prophet slay a dragon. "We have stolen many cars and they are loaded and ready to go. Once on scene we will recruit the drivers and do honor for islam."

Posted by: Lucky   2004-05-05 12:30:19 PM  

00:00