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| Ten arrested in alleged UK stadium terror plot | |||||
| 2004-04-20 | |||||
Police in the north of England have arrested 10 people on suspicion of terrorism, thereby reportedly foiling a suicide bomb attack aimed at a packed soccer stadium. Greater Manchester Police said Monday the raids included searches of a number of buildings and businesses. The 10 were detained "on suspicion of being concerned in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism." The Sun newspaper reported Tuesday that the suspects planned to set off bombs during a match between Manchester United and Liverpool this weekend -- one of the biggest games in the English soccer calendar. The paper quoted an unnamed police source as saying the suspects had bought tickets for seats in the 67,000-capacity Manchester United’s Old Trafford stadium. The arrests reportedly made after months of surveillance and eavesdropping on cell phone calls, the paper said. Six have since been charged with explosives or terrorism offences. A Canadian, Momin Khawaja, has been named as a co-conspirator in the case.
A fertilizer suicide bomber wouldn’t be that effective unless he looked like the Michelin man. I think they must have had commercial explosives and the journalist doesn’t know what he is talking about as usual. BTW, this boom would have been live on TV and watched by at least a hundred million people.
A TERROR plot to bomb a target in Greater Manchester was uncovered today. Ten people - all with apparent links to extreme Islamic groups - were arrested in co-ordinated raids early this morning. Special branch officers confirmed they had arrested nine men and one woman. Seven addresses were targeted and seven people arrested in Greater Manchester. Three further people were arrested in the West Midlands, Staffordshire, and South Yorkshire. Those being questioned today are Iraqis, Kurds and north Africans.
Police said they would neither confirm not deny rumours about possible targets. A total of 400 officers from the four forces were used in the co-ordinated swoops. A spokesman for Greater Manchester Police, which oversaw the operation said: "All those arrested are being held on suspicion of the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism." It is the climax of a lengthy surveillance operation involving Special Branch and the security services, during which a number of messages have been intercepted.
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| Posted by:Phil B |
| #54 Cheers, Bulldog, for saying what I was too upset to say. Terrorists are terrorists, no matter how "just" they think their cause is or be they Al Queda or the IRA. Blowing people up and murdering them is the wrong way to attain your political goals regardless of how "righteous" the perpetrators think they are to justify this slaughter. |
| Posted by: Jen 2004-04-21 4:22:06 AM |
| #53 That prick's death was just a small pay back for what the Brits have pulled in Ireland--anyone remember the potato famine... Er, no. Everyone involved in that died generations ago... So how exactly did the 79 year-old Second World War veteran Lord Mountbatten, his 14 year-old grandson and a 17 year-old boatmen bear moral responsibility for that? You're a sad waste of a human life, NMM. |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2004-04-21 4:18:43 AM |
| #52 Too cool, SH! PeeWee was a prophet (May peace and bowties be upon him!) and "Tap" is the nuts, so...no problem! ;-) |
| Posted by: Jen 2004-04-21 4:07:08 AM |
| #51 Jen, thanks for the compliment. Sane was the last thing I expected to be called after posting a comment that included Peewee, the King of Pop, Larry Flynt, and an obscure reference to the movie This is Spinal Tap. Life is full of surprises. :-) |
| Posted by: Super Hose 2004-04-21 4:04:24 AM |
| #50 Sorry, Super Hose! You saved RB by staying sane, of course. It's just that having just heard about the 3 simultaneous bombs in Basra, NMM's Leftist whine was getting on my t*ts! |
| Posted by: Jen 2004-04-21 3:36:33 AM |
| #49 NMM is siding with the French and the suicide bombers tonight. Who are you picking in the Branch Davidians versus Reno's Rampaging Feds? I'm sure that you can come-up with something controversial to get Jen riled up. How about between Larry Flint and the Barnyard animals he assaulted - I don't really have a dog in that fight either - but go ahead and shock me. Do your best. Got an opinion on Michael Jackson and Peewee Herman in a wrestling match over a jar of Vaseline while they watch the Romanian Women's Gymnastics team Jello wrestle. Come on NMM. Turn it up to eleven. |
| Posted by: Super Hose 2004-04-21 3:11:28 AM |
| #48 NMM, you're a piece of work. Your heart is harder than granite. And just as you take the side of the Irish, the British feel equally deeply that Northern Ireland is theirs by right of running it, developing it, and making it productive. And the IRA has been training with AQ and the Islamist terrorists so don't go there. |
| Posted by: Jen 2004-04-21 2:43:09 AM |
| #47 That prick's death was just a small pay back for what the Brits have pulled in Ireland--anyone remember the potato famine--and the extermination of the Gaelic language the Brits pulled there--"Nothern Ireland" is a rump state created by a fading Empire that didn't want to cut free the Protestants from Scotland they suckered into moving there--IRA I don't blame them and they are not comparable to Al Qaeda in any sense |
| Posted by: Not Mike Moore 2004-04-21 1:47:54 AM |
| #46 Anyway my point was that to equate the IRA and Islamic terrorists is a serious error. Tell that to Lord Mountbatten. ----------------------------------- Lord Mountbatten killed by IRA bomb August 27 - For more than 30 years, Earl Mountbatten of Burma had spent every August in the quiet fishing village of Mullaghmore, County Sligo in Ireland. He and his family were familiar faces and well-liked by villagers with whom they mixed freely. He never felt the need of a bodyguard. It was the middle of the morning when Earl Mountbatten and members of his family drove from their Irish home, Classiebawn Castle, down to the harbor and set out for a day's fishing in their 30-foot boat, Shadow V. The boat had hardly left the harbor mouth when it was ripped apart by an IRA bomb. Earl Mountbatten, aged 79 was killed instantly. His grandson, Nicholas, aged 14, and a 17 year old boatsman also died in the blast. Lord Mountbatten's daughter, Lady Brabourne, her son Timothy and her mother-in-law, the Dowager Lady Brabourne, were all said to be "critical" in an intensive care ward. Eyewitnesses described a roaring explosion which blew the boat high in the air, smashing it into tiny pieces of wood. In a statement tonight, the IRA claimed responsibility for "the execution of Lord Louis Mountbatten" and said that the boat had been blown up by remote control. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-04-20 10:07:19 PM |
| #45 Iraqis, Kurds, & North Africans... Oh my. Didn't know Iraqis did islamostyle terror? obvious |
| Posted by: Rawsnacks 2004-04-20 9:45:08 PM |
| #44 Yoiks! CNN mentioned it but didn't say it'd be like bombing a Cowboys-Redskins NFL game. I've got tickets to see Man U v Bayern Munich this summer in Chicago! Nothing had better happen to them. Last year, they traded Beckham before I could see him play in Philadelphia. Mainstream UK Muslims are kuffir to these zealots and are expendable so ethnic strife is exactly what they're after. As an American of Irish Catholic ancestry, I'm proud to say I never gave a nickle to the IRA ever despite the 'browbeating' of NORAID creeps in pubs from Boston to LA. Now I just tell them, "Dublin takes orders from Brussels, London takes orders from Brussels. history's passed you by. You still want 'freedom'? Bomb the Belgians." |
| Posted by: JDB 2004-04-20 8:38:24 PM |
| #43 On the Phil B. kerfuffle (apologies to J. Taranto), I agree with the thoughts expressed by others that a terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist. On the UK soccer thugs, I say we should put their anger to good use. Send a brigade or two of them over to Iraq to thrash the Mahdi "Army." On UK and US muslim "leaders" who fail to apologize for or even acknowledge the depravity of their brethren, they remind me of NARAL's position on abortion -- giving one inch (acknowledging that partial birth abortion is a gruesome, unnecessary procedure) leads to the ultimate erosion of your position. If Hussein Ibish (what a fat toad -- Ed.) were to ever criticize the Paleoboomers, al Qaeda, etc., he would forever lose the moral "high ground." |
| Posted by: Tibor 2004-04-20 8:08:37 PM |
| #42 It's a different culture. The IRA is a legitimate freedoming fightin baby killing outfit. And also get style points for Trinity. Jeez.... Freepers. |
| Posted by: AntiGum 2004-04-20 8:02:33 PM |
| #41 Noraid is still raising money. Perhaps now it really does go for humanitarian purposes only. |
| Posted by: Mr. Davis 2004-04-20 7:24:06 PM |
| #40 Anyway my point was that to equate the IRA and Islamic terrorists is a serious error. There was always political accomodation with the IRA. There is no accomodation with Islamic terrorists. Phil B, sorry, but that's not enough. Do you, or don't you, condemn the IRA's tactic of killing innocents? Inquiring minds want to know. |
| Posted by: cingold 2004-04-20 7:13:36 PM |
| #39 Never been in central London and caught in a bomb alert have you? But I have been caught in bomb blast in Belfast. Note that the currently most popular political party amoung N. Ireland Catholics is Sinn Fein, the IRA's political wing. Also note the Troubles started becuase of legitimate issues; the B specials, absence of one person one vote, and widespread discrimination especially on employment. The Brits made a serious error in demonizing the IRA. It blinded them to its popularity and its perceived legitimacy in the eyes of many NI catholics. Many times I was met with shocked disbelief when I told british people that the IRA is genuinely popular. Anyway my point was that to equate the IRA and Islamic terrorists is a serious error. There was always political accomodation with the IRA. There is no accomodation with Islamic terrorists. |
| Posted by: Phil B 2004-04-20 7:08:23 PM |
| #38 1. I think anyone planning to set off a dozen or so suicide bombs in any soccer stadium had better pray the bomb does not malfunction. He/she/it should also not have any living relatives in Western Europe - not just "not in England", but not anywhere where a few Manchester fans (or fans from whatever local team is playing at the time) can get to. Not, that is, if they have any care for their families at all. 2. While it would be deplorable, I think a good, raging mob ripping the throats out of a few hundred Muslims, destroying the local mosque, and rampaging through the streets of a British city may send the best message possible to the people of the Middle East - "push us too far, and we'll not only do this in our country, but after we finish, we'll come do it in YOURS". My dad's family came from Scotland in the 1730's, my mom's family from Ireland in the 1840's. Neither have any great love for the British. There are still some lingering harsh feelings, based on legitimate grievences. The British have never been lily-white and simon-pure in dealing with their subject peoples, and seemed to reserve their harshest animosities for those closest to them. There is probably still a number of issues they should be held to answer for. Terrorism - acts of random violence against innocents, especially women and children - is NEVER the right answer to any injustice. I can understand the frustrations of the Irish, but I cannot support their methods. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot 2004-04-20 6:24:06 PM |
| #37 In defence of Phil B, he did say he was a long term supporter of the IRA, implying that he no longer has such sympathies. So long as his support, while it lasted, didn't extend beyond the moral variety, I'm personally content to let bygones be bygones. I don't think Phil's American - I think he's from the UK (possibly N Ireland?) originally. |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2004-04-20 6:03:18 PM |
| #36 I am of Irish descent also. |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-04-20 5:50:27 PM |
| #35 Thank you Howard (UK) you do always have a way to get to the bisquit. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2004-04-20 5:44:37 PM |
| #34 Phil,being an American of strong Irish decent I absolutly condemn the IRA.They are no different than any other terrorists. |
| Posted by: raptor 2004-04-20 5:44:14 PM |
| #33 Phil B, you're an a**hole. You're a hypocrite! How can you sit here and rant, pardon the pun, about jihadists, while all along you support the I.R.A. And YOU posted this news article. What if the I.R.A. was the group behind this attempted slaughter of innocents? Would you have supported that? What if Howard UK or any of our other U.K. posters were at that match? You're a terrorist, fifth columnist, etc. I'll be watching you. |
| Posted by: Kentucky Beef 2004-04-20 5:38:34 PM |
| #32 I think Phil B has the word. Saying you support the IRA will only make folks think of your support for the IRA when they read your other comments. |
| Posted by: Anonymous4052 2004-04-20 5:18:36 PM |
| #31 and I've got Basque relatives |
| Posted by: Frank G 2004-04-20 5:05:58 PM |
| #30 major moral error Phil B. No can do here either |
| Posted by: Frank G 2004-04-20 5:05:23 PM |
| #29 IF it turns out that Phil B is a Yank, I want to take this opportunity to do what too many muslims fail to do - to distance myself entirely from his support of the IRA. I am ashamed that some of my countrymen did so, and that some of our politicians countenanced it. I, too, am obliged to echo Liberalhawk's sentiments. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-04-20 5:04:07 PM |
| #28 IMHO, the US should have been prosecuting anyone supporting the IRA -- and we should seriously consider prosecuting NOW anyone whose support hasn't been eclipsed by the statute of limitations. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-04-20 4:36:33 PM |
| #27 IF it turns out that Phil B is a Yank, I want to take this opportunity to do what too many muslims fail to do - to distance myself entirely from his support of the IRA. I am ashamed that some of my countrymen did so, and that some of our politicians countenanced it. I confess to not having done anything about it, or to have worried much about it, prior to 2000. IIUC the US has been firm on fighting the Real IRA in recent years, and the IRA, whatever its violations of disarmament accords, has not gone back to terror bombings - its more like the PA than like Hamas now (actually better behaved than the PA) What would you have the US do differently now? |
| Posted by: Liberalhawk 2004-04-20 4:18:17 PM |
| #26 I should add not everybody listen to the sermon... |
| Posted by: Anonymous4052 2004-04-20 4:09:58 PM |
| #25 From a distance I have seen some of those English Soccer fans. Maybe that influences the "Mainstream Islamic Clerics" to discourage their "flock" from messing with those fans. Sorta like the Oakland Raider Fans X 10 |
| Posted by: Anonymous4052 2004-04-20 4:08:46 PM |
| #24 If you are a long time supporter of the IRA then you obviously support the Taliban etc as the IRA targetted the civilian population just like the Taliban etc do, you tosser. They hid sorry still hide in holes just like the Taliban do. Do you even know why you support the IRA or are you just trying to be clever. Think again if that is possible for you. Its not clever and whilst there are idiots around like you that support such movements they shall expand and continue |
| Posted by: Wendy 2004-04-20 4:08:27 PM |
| #23 I was a long time supporter of the IRA and they never represented the same existential threat that Islamics terrorists do Never been in central London and caught in a bomb alert have you? C*nt. |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-04-20 3:45:33 PM |
| #22 I agree with PlanetDan. Lenin, who was the first to successfully radicalize a population and exploit it to his advantage was careful in the events leading up to the October revolution to not engage in atrocities. Instead, he leveraged off the foul ups of the existing government, promising to stop atrocities and shortages if he was in power. The Islamists would certainly isolate the UK Muslim population, and perhaps radicalize it, but by initiating the atrocity themselves, they would alienate large portions of the Muslim population and almost 100% of the non-Muslim population. The best outcome that they could hope for would be something akin to Malaysia in the 50's when the Chinese minority went over to Communism and started a guerilla war. If, according to Mao's dictum, the guerilla is the fish and the people is the sea, then the Jihadis would be operating in a very shallow sea and would be easily picked off. On the continent, the Muslims have been so marginalized, that I think that guerrilla war has a chance. Unlike the UK where Muslims and Hindus have been successful in business and government, the continental Muslim is still ghetto-ized. An atrocity against a weak goverment like Spain's might convince Muslim fence sitters that the power challenge dialectic (see Pryce-Jones' The Closed Circle) could be successfully imported to Europe and used to destroy a weak European culture. BTW: There has been much questioning here why the Brits haven't shut down the Islamist networks. In WWII, the UK never shut down Hitler's intel networks. They infiltrated them and turned them. Every one. 100% success. An intelligence success like today's represents that sort of effort. |
| Posted by: 11A5S 2004-04-20 1:24:30 PM |
| #21 Yes, this would have inspired a lot of soccer hooligans to commit violence against Muslims. Yes, that would have inspired a lot of Muslims to be even more radical. I'm not so sure about this. I think a bombing carried out by extremists, followed by reprisals agains uninvolved muslims would force UK muslims to have to chooose between their current way of life (upwardly mobile, living in a free society, etc.) vs. supporting a small band of terrorists whose raison d'etre (pardon my french!) is questionable, at best. Mainstream UK muslims don't agree with the tenents of the extremists. being attacked for being muslim ain't gonna sway 'em. In fact, I think they'd actually become more activist AGAINST the extremists. or maybe that's simply what I hope. sigh. |
| Posted by: PlanetDan 2004-04-20 12:01:25 PM |
| #20 I was a long time supporter of the IRA and they never represented the same existential threat that Islamics terrorists do. Um, existential to whom, Phil B? They killed hundreds of men, women and children, and on one occasion very nearly wiped out the British government. I'd say there are a lot of grieving relatives still around who are painfully aware of human existences the IRA snuffed out. The IRA may not have been as intent on transforming (mainland) British society as the Islamists, but they've killed a lot more of us than the latter group have managed to, so far. My point is not what threat the IRA posed, but how the British community treated the average Irishman who, like the average Muslim, bears no guilt-by-association with killers who may happen to claim to be acting in their 'name'. The idea of collective blame, where only a minority is responsible, is mediaeval to say the least. Israel has a massive informant network. They don't thwart the majority of attempted suicide bombings through luck or technology alone... |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2004-04-20 11:52:33 AM |
| #19 Three points. 1. I just watched the BBC international news and this story didn't merit a mention. I wonder why? 2. I was a long time supporter of the IRA and they never represented the same existential threat that Islamics terrorists do. 3. Israel is using electronics to monitor what is going on in the Paleo terrortories. They don't need informants, but I am sure they have them. |
| Posted by: Phil B 2004-04-20 11:31:59 AM |
| #18 Muslim leaders have, especially recently, been speaking publicly denouncing terrorism and reaffirming their commitment to work with British police and security services. You don't see as many public displays of rejection of terrorism from the general muslim population as I'd like to see, but then we haven't had a serious attack on UK soil yet. I don't recall hearing too much protest from the British Irish population when the IRA's thugs were on the rampage, either, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen, or that British people suspected the majority of that population were supporting or harbouring terrorists. The fact is, the extremist minority, however small, always get a disproportionate amount of press attention. Even if 99 % of Muslim clerics denounced terrorism every Friday, it simply wouldn't be newsworthy. |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2004-04-20 11:11:13 AM |
| #17 "And yet they do little or nothing to expose the terrorists, " How, exactly, do we know this? Presumably the police in the UK and the US dont publicize their use of informants, tips, etc within the muslim community. On a related topic, how do you think the Israelis knew where Rantissi was?? The one story that no one has focused on WRT Gaza is how the deaths of Yassin and Rantissi reveal the strength of the informant network Israel has in Gaza. |
| Posted by: Liberalhawk 2004-04-20 10:45:39 AM |
| #16 I think this may finally prompt the 'normal' Muslims into getting rid of the loonies in their midst so as to avoid swathes of the inner cities being reduced to rubble. It would appear as though it will take a few incidents like this (and likely the loss of much innocent life) before western Muslims realize that all violent jihadis must be reported to the authorities. Merely expelling such thugs from their respective religious communities will probably not suffice any more as there will always be rabid Imams willing to counsel violent jihad. Again, this is just the first of many wake up calls for Western Muslims. It's time for them to get the message and hang up the phone. And yet they do little or nothing to expose the terrorists, and like US Muslims, let the extremists be their spokesmen. Silence, as always, is consent. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-04-20 9:45:01 AM |
| #15 It's worth bearing in mind that the majority of British muslims reject terrorism and are far from radical. And yet they do little or nothing to expose the terrorists, and like US Muslims, let the extremists be their spokesmen. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-04-20 9:03:47 AM |
| #14 A spot of footy violence may put an end to the seeming ambivalence of the many though... they're very good at policing their own and this may force them to do it.. would be a total bloodbath for a bit tho' |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-04-20 9:02:09 AM |
| #13 It's worth bearing in mind that the majority of British muslims reject terrorism and are far from radical. Turning the general population anti-Muslim would have the effect of swelling the Islamic extremists' ranks with more than the number which would end up swinging on lamp posts, IMO. Whilst British muslims are living here peacefully, gradually integrating into British society and culture, many losing their religion, they're effectively being lost to the Islamists. A polarisation of British society would perhaps be a gamble, but in the eyes of the jihadists, preferable to doing nothing at all. When Islam's in a losing situation, you can expect violence. |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2004-04-20 8:56:56 AM |
| #12 But what good would that have done them, considering the lynch mobs rounding them up and hanging them from lamp posts? Ah, but that is exactly the image they want, run over and over on all arab networks. The muslims living in Britian would suffer, sure, but that would be outweighed by all the converts to their cause (they hope) that would flock to their ranks after seeing innocent muslims lynched by a western mob. |
| Posted by: Steve 2004-04-20 8:43:54 AM |
| #11 RC - Bullseye. The only opposition I've seen to islamo-fascism in the UK came, unsurprisingly not from the Anti-Nazi League, but from a cadre of football fans who turned up to an Al-Muj demo in Trafalgar Square and scared them out of their turbans. They should be careful how they choose their enemies. |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-04-20 8:24:06 AM |
| #10 I'm sorry, but I don't understand: Yes, this would have inspired a lot of soccer hooligans to commit violence against Muslims. Yes, that would have inspired a lot of Muslims to be even more radical. But what good would that have done them, considering the lynch mobs rounding them up and hanging them from lamp posts? |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-04-20 8:05:48 AM |
| #9 Maybe they were genuine Man Utd fans trying to have a go at the Scousers? |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-04-20 7:37:08 AM |
| #8 UPDATE: The Sun has a bit more detail on the apparent intentions of the terrorists. They had bought tickets for seats dispersed around the stadium, so that a number of suicide bombers could strike separately, maximising the number of casualties. You're right, Phil B - this would have required plastic explosives, and would have been a media spectacular. |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2004-04-20 7:06:52 AM |
| #7 http://website.lineone.net/~view_from_the_terrace/britsce.html Come on the DLF! |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-04-20 5:49:41 AM |
| #6 The average British football fan is not known for his reserve and shrewd objectivity. The proverbial shit would hit the fan in a large way. I think this may finally prompt the 'normal' Muslims into getting rid of the loonies in their midst so as to avoid swathes of the inner cities being reduced to rubble. It's hi-ho back to 2001 we go... http://www.guardian.co.uk/racism/Story/0,2763,518621,00.html |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-04-20 5:46:46 AM |
| #5 Is this their aim? You betcha. And the sort of attitude you describe would be dancing to the jihadists' tune. They would send a lot of weak-minded folks running into the hands of the BNP and vigliante groups, which would generate a corresponding whole lot more support for Islamist-inspired violence within the Muslim community. A widespread recourse to bloody, racist stupidity would show that an Islamist cell could manipulate British society just as they did the Spanish. Bombs of whatever size in a packed sports stadium would be guaranteed to cause a significant number of casualties through panicking crowd action alone. If I was Asian, I would think twice before going to a high profile match like this, for fear of being lynched in the chaos that would ensue a terrorist attack. |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2004-04-20 5:39:14 AM |
| #4 Then it's a pretty fucking stupid one cos their communities will be trashed every other Saturday. |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-04-20 5:38:48 AM |
| #3 Is this their aim? Of course it is. The more Muslims are radicalized the better. |
| Posted by: Phil B 2004-04-20 5:31:44 AM |
| #2 Hitting football grounds would stir up massive problems for muslims in the UK - remember the Oldham riots started by Stoke City thugs? If I were a travelling die-hard fan I could think of doing nothing better than smashing up a few corner shops when visiting Bradford / Oldham / Burnley / Blackburn / Derby / Leicester/ Leeds etc... Is this their aim? |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-04-20 5:26:54 AM |
| #1 One possible MO - Small Suicide bomb or bombs set off in the stadium itself, then a much larger explosive or explosive devices are detonated outside the stadium as the crowds leave (possibly in vehicles driven up to exits soon after the first blasts). No need to risk smuggling more than a small amount of explosives past the stadium's security personnel. |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2004-04-20 5:19:14 AM |