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| Afghanistan/South Asia |
| Al-Qaeda being aided by tribals, Ayman may not be there |
| 2004-03-20 |
| Several thousand Pakistani army troops have surrounded between 150 and 400 tribal fighters and foreign Islamic guerrillas, some of them associated with al Qaeda, as heavy fighting continued in a remote area near the border with Afghanistan, military officials said Friday. Senior officials said Friday that the foreigners include Chechens, Uzbeks and some Arabs, but they said they had no specific evidence that either bin Laden or Zawahiri was in the area. "Most recent intelligence inputs do not support the perception that either Osama or Ayman are holed up in that vicinity," said a senior military intelligence officer in Peshawar, the capital of the province in northwestern Pakistan that includes the semi-autonomous tribal area of South Waziristan. "The idea is to send the strongest message yet to the al Qaeda supporters, but who knows? We may hit the jackpot in the process," the official added. Pakistan's military spokesman, Maj. Gen. Shaukat Sultan, told reporters at a news conference in Islamabad that the guerrillas "are surrounded and they are trying to break the cordon and get away." Based on "an assessment from the fire we are receiving," Sultan said, military commanders estimated guerrillas' strength at 300 to 400. A military officer in Peshawar put the number at about 150. Besides ridding the area of al Qaeda and Taliban fighters, the immediate goal of Friday's operation was to free about a dozen Pakistani paramilitary solders and two civilian officials who had been taken hostage by the foreign fighters on Tuesday, when the army launched its sweep in South Waziristan, according to the two military officers in Peshawar. "The Chechens basically want free passage and an immediate end of the military operation in exchange for the release of the hostages," the intelligence officer said. Although he said there would be "no bargaining," he noted that Gen. Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan's president, has already pledged that any foreign fighters who surrender to Pakistani security forces will not be handed over to U.S. custody. On Friday, Pakistani forces surrounded guerrillas who had taken refuge in mud-walled compounds scattered among several villages west of Wana, the main town in South Waziristan. The operation is centered on an area a few miles from the border with Afghanistan, the officials said. Helicopters attacked the guerrillas' compounds with rockets while ground troops pounded the besieged fighters with artillery. A Pakistani army officer said there was "considerable coordination" with U.S. ground forces operating nearby in Afghanistan. Witnesses in Wana reported that artillery fire continued through the night and that fighter aircraft were visible overhead as the fighting spread on Friday, the Associated Press reported. Families in the village of Shin Warsak, five miles southeast of Wana, fled in overloaded pickup trucks after helicopter gunships fired rockets at houses. Army trucks loaded with soldiers and weapons rolled out of Wana in the direction of the fighting. Pakistani army officials and a senior civilian official in Peshawar said Friday night that some influential tribal leaders of South Waziristan were active throughout the day trying to broker an agreement between security forces and the trapped guerrillas. "The terrorists have been given an unambiguous message that their failure to surrender would invite wrath of the army," according to the aide to the governor of North-West Frontier Province. |
| Posted by:Dan Darling |
| #20 Nobody goes to the doka anymore, it's too crowded with nuances. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2004-3-20 8:11:31 PM |
| #19 quote from fox news... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,114725,00.html Briefing reporters, Hussain (Pakistani Lt. Gen.) said a Chechen fighter was arrested Friday with a book on chemistry and explosives. He said he suspected many of the militants were foreigners but others were members of the Pakistani Yargul Khel tribe. "I'm determined to punish this tribe and make them an example for the entire South Waziristan agency," Hussain said, adding that operations would continue in the area even after the current crackdown. Weren't they just yesterday talking about avoiding collateral damage to the tribe?... I think the Pakistanis are pissed now. |
| Posted by: Damn_Proud_American 2004-3-20 4:41:04 PM |
| #18 loan 'em a MOAB. Flush the rotten turds to hell. |
| Posted by: anymouse 2004-3-20 1:08:22 PM |
| #17 Methinks he doth protest... |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2004-3-20 12:37:56 PM |
| #16 Evert - that's more than I needed to know... |
| Posted by: Frank G 2004-3-20 12:14:36 PM |
| #15 Sorry Raptor, I was talking about a photo-lab (because of the Homo-erotic nuance, i don't like to use the word: "Dark-room" (doka is the dutch abbreviation of the word) ( nothing against gays but i think it better to eradicate any doubt about my sexuality beforehand ))) |
| Posted by: Evert Visser in NL 2004-3-20 10:40:04 AM |
| #14 They left Pakis in lurch with few F16s and nothing else in military might on insistance from the indies. Shud they hv supported their staunch ally then things would hv been a bit different. Anyway never too late to appreciate a friend in need. Might as well give them few extras in brad/abrahms for keep. |
| Posted by: sakattack 2004-3-20 7:34:49 AM |
| #13 Doka??? Sounds like they would rather die in place than try to escape across the border. |
| Posted by: Raptor 2004-3-20 7:12:22 AM |
| #12 i'd use A-10's and AC-130 as loitering killers,have 3 or 4 tactical forward air control parties on the ground, perhaps set up a forward operating base for attack helo ops,wow just thinking about everything thats needed is a hell of a task.Basically use go all out on the bastards with full air cover and fire support.B1B's flat out down on the deck,think Mach 1.2 250 feet above the ground,even if they didn't drop the any weapons they may well scare some out not to mention permanently deafen them.. :) |
| Posted by: Jon Shep U.K 2004-3-20 6:59:58 AM |
| #11 CNN showed some (presumably Pakistani?) armor, but i doubt thats ideal weapon system for attacking a surrounded and fortified position. Infantry and artillery sound like best mix. What they WOULD benefit from would be US (or UK) infantry, presumably more efficient and reliable, and coalition helicopters and fixed wing aircraft, in addition to their own. Dont count on it though. Perv is taking a huge step politically in sending a force of 70,000 regulars into this region. Something Pakistan has never done before, and I dont think you Brits did it very often, either. As it is the MMA is "seething". If Perv can get a good bag, either a senior leader, or at least several hundred cannon fodder plus some midlevels, the pressure to let in coalition forces is off. Reports this AM suggest a bag of 100 prisoners, not counting all the dead hostiles. It will be a big disappointment if they dont get Ayman, but I think they'll still be happy with 200-300 hostile dead or captured, an AQ base destroyed (for the first time in Pakistan?) and a major demonstration to the locals of the states ability to send forces there with impunity. |
| Posted by: liberalhawk 2004-3-20 6:48:36 AM |
| #10 there must be a pretty much unpoliced route all across the middle east for these fuckers to travel about on.Bet theres alot of these bastards constantly shuttling to and fro from chechenia to pak land and Afgan not to mention through to Iraq and Palistine.Wonder what other nationalities of scumbag they'll bag in the hills,my bets are on a few indianision or simlar fellow scumbags also up there. Wouldn't mind betting a few more 'British' backpackers will be innoceltly caught up in it to as they travel through the idilic scenary.Sounds like America needs to C-17 a few bradleys and abrams armoured vehicles to speed things up |
| Posted by: Jon Shep U.K 2004-3-20 6:31:50 AM |
| #9 Thanks for the info PM, it is starting to look like the pashtun are the sunni's of paki-land. OT: Everybody keep an eye out for this: "11:31 USA Today fires reporter for faking stories, including firsthand account of settlers shooting on Palestinian taxi in Hebron" story please (I cant myself, the next 32 hours will mostly be working in a doka,drinking or riding my horse :-):-) |
| Posted by: Evert Visser in NL 2004-3-20 4:49:06 AM |
| #8 Thanks, Paul! Sounds like a good, informed answer. |
| Posted by: Jen 2004-3-20 2:55:00 AM |
| #7 What the hell are the Chechens doing all the way over in Pakistan??! After the Taliban, the thousands of foreigners their crossed over the border to Pakistan. The South East Asians, Bangladeshis, and Arabs made their way back to their own countries, and the Pakistanis melted back into society. But the Chechens have nowhere to go home too, and since many of them speak Pashtun, they decided to stay. Although some of them have been reported as going to Iraq. |
| Posted by: Paul Moloney 2004-3-20 1:05:49 AM |
| #6 What the hell are the Chechens doing all the way over in Pakistan??! It's the all-you-can-eat Halal Roast Goat fest. |
| Posted by: Rafael 2004-3-20 12:46:34 AM |
| #5 Is Perv's promise not to hand prisoners over to the Americans supposed to be an incentive to surrender? Apparently these guys have not heard the truth about the Havanah Hilton or the Karachi Gulag. |
| Posted by: Mr. Davis 2004-3-20 12:44:30 AM |
| #4 Kill them, Kill them good! Jen, Living. Time to end that! |
| Posted by: Lucky 2004-3-20 12:41:46 AM |
| #3 Dumb question with an obvious answer, but.. What the hell are the Chechens doing all the way over in Pakistan??! |
| Posted by: Jen 2004-3-20 12:38:30 AM |
| #2 The Chechens basically want free passage and an immediate end of the military operation in exchange for the release of the hostages Kidnapping is the Chechens' major economic activity. |
| Posted by: Mike Sylwester 2004-3-20 12:34:36 AM |
| #1 should AQ get reprieves if Ayman's not home? I think not.....Kill.Them. |
| Posted by: Frank G 2004-3-20 12:29:29 AM |