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| Britain |
| One bloke get’s it: America is a great nation! |
| 2004-03-10 |
| EFL The growth of anti-Americanism, and in particular anti-Bushism, in Europe is frightening and, for me, incomprehensible. For the past six months I have lived in Washington, D.C. It has been a profoundly revealing time for me. Before I came here from my native England, I was apathetic about America—I didn’t hate Americans, but I wasn’t overly enthusiastic either. Now, however, having tasted what this great nation has to offer, I return to Europe with a reluctance I had not expected. In fact I dread returning to the woolly-minded, dictator-coddling, morally bankrupt, decadent continent. And I return determined to defend the nation that is, rightly, our best friend. Read the whole article. |
| Posted by:Dragon Fly |
| #10 .com, you're a programmer and I'm a factory supervisor yet we meet in this forum daily to discuss the WOT. What has draws me to keeps in this forum is both my need to feel like I contribute to the cause and the joy it is to interact with people with specific knowledge/interest in the WOT beyond what you can get on Fox News or Talk Radio. To me you are a programmer with specific knowledge of parts of the world and parts of business that are hard to come by. The Pro-life/Pro-Choice is an easier way for me to illustrate to you the way I can unconventionally structure and argument for three reasons: 1. By using an off-topic subject I can cause all others to tune out immediately for a relatively private conversation about the structure of arguments. Let's be realistic only a percentage of the people that follow Rantburg understand what Super Hose is getting at. Figure the odds of anyone being interested in Super Hose and .com discussing abortion rights. 2. Also if I used a WOT example there was a chance that the content would obscure the skeleton of the argument. Note - the example is carefully chosen because my expressed concern for my wife and grief as a parent undercuts your, "men can't care about women's issues" pat response. If we were actually having an abortion rights debate, I would have then penetrated your defense and forced you to implement the emergency "personal attack" gambit that is common to both debates. Note - as proof that I my overriding interest is not Pro-Life, I offer up the fact that I am, hopefully, not demonstrably retarded. And it would be an insane act to spend a large portion of my time lurking in a WOT forum to single out individuals and proselytize them. 3. I think I have demonstrated that a flanking movement can be executed in an argument about issues where at least some of the participants and audience are paying attention. Maybe it is possible to use flanking techniques in business as well. Thanks, for your attention now back to my UAW buddies. Also if you notice a difference in the spelling and grammatical quality of my posts, it is because I am constructing the majority of the more involved ones on a Palm Pilot as the life runs. The running tally that Fred has included made me realize just how many people are tuning in but not posting – kind of scary that they would be drawn to monitor the repartee of Fred’s team of characters. I am in know was qualified to prance about spouting opinions in front of that large an audience. It’s surreal. |
| Posted by: Super Hose 2004-3-11 7:28:11 AM |
| #9 SH - Oops - saw this very late... had to run to Quizno's and resupply, heh. I get your point. My problem is I'm a programmer. What makes me good at that makes me bad at your technique, heh! Re: Pro Life vs Choice - my instantaneous response (and the one I'd post, I'm sure) is that, since I'm not a femalian, I'll never be pregnant - so I shoudn't have any say in the debate, period. The wymyns should decide and let us myns know when they're finished voting. And, BTW, isn't it odd that most Right to Life Groups are headed by MEN? Sorry, I got cheated on that imagination gene!!! Thx for the thoughtful reply - it wasn't totally lost on me - and your conclusion is dead right. The Presidential election will be a pivot point in history, methinks. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-3-11 12:33:47 AM |
| #8 .com, I honestly think that the successful strategy is for all concerned patriots to confront bologna with facts at as many opportunities as possible. We are beginning to challenge fallacy at the grassroots. I try to include imaginative twists in the arguments that I make because it is harder to counter an unconventional attack with boiler plate. I provide this OT strategy as an example of this technique not to begin a debate on that topic here, but to demonstrate the actual point of the warped way that I often present an argument. Here goes: the standard Right=To-Life versus Pro-Choice argument has become as ubiquitous as an episode of Sponge Bob. Many people tune the debate out for the same reason the fewer people watched each successive iteration of the Rocky movie series. The way that I would formulate the Pro-Life argument would be to 1. My wife and I have suffered through two very painful miscarriages interspersed through the birth of our three children. 2. Once this happened to us many other people opened up and shared with us their descriptions of their own equally painful and sometimes much more painful miscarriages. Stillbirth is such an incredible tragedy that I am both sorrowful for those who have to deal with that catastrophe in their lives and thankful that my wife and I were spared that awful experience. 3. I am horrified by the cruelty of those who could encourage and assist others to voluntarily create a miscarriage for other than extreme circumstances. I think my example argument is unconventional and compelling enough to reach some people that have tuned out. The same type of argument structure can be created around the WOT. Note - This example argument is, of course, true as all arguments to support the WOT should be as well. In my parody arguments I use exaggerated silly and obviously untrue elements in the distractive portions, but the final curve ball to the groin needs to ring true to persuade. We must persuade or mandkind may be lost. |
| Posted by: Super Hose 2004-3-10 11:29:29 PM |
| #7 Anonymous2U, those are probably either Al Queda hoping to remain anonymous or Feds, hoping to draw Al Queda attention. I've yet to see anyone reading a bible out in public but then again I lived in Northern California for most of my life. |
| Posted by: ruprecht 2004-3-10 7:37:37 PM |
| #6 People are reading their bibles on buses in DC??? That really surprises me. |
| Posted by: Anonymous2U 2004-3-10 2:10:24 PM |
| #5 We should force all journalists working for a major newspaper to first spend five years covering sub-Saharan Africa - on-site. I'm sure their love of the United States would be quite higher, and their tolerance for third-world dictators far lower. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot 2004-3-10 1:08:11 PM |
| #4 we as a nation should never lower our confidence and astuteness just because some lazy euros can't compete...... |
| Posted by: Dan 2004-3-10 12:38:47 PM |
| #3 It seems to me that part of the answer is obvious. There needs to be a covert organization that targets those within the media that are spewing all the lies and distortions. Said bluntly, we need to terminate them with extreme prejudice. -AR |
| Posted by: Analog Roam 2004-3-10 10:05:50 AM |
| #2 The shite's pretty deep, indeed. With the vast majority of the media utterly complicit, the lies pile up and get constant repetition - sounding more and more reasonable, even taking on the appearance of being obvious over time. Such is the mechanics of crafting the desired conventional wisdom in the world. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-3-10 7:38:49 AM |
| #1 A refreshing article, but the fact that a man who is "on the British Conservative Party’s Candidates List and works for the human rights organization Christian Solidarity Worldwide" has to go to such great lengths in order to be convinced of these simple truths is also profoundly depressing. It goes to show how pervasive anti-American presumptions have become, even in the UK. Its about time more people spoke up for the United States, and rejected the widely-accepted lies and gross distortions, but without having to spend months in the country in order to be able to do so. Good read, though. Hope he makes it to the Commons. |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2004-3-10 7:12:23 AM |