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Iraq
Five dead in Iraq anti-Kurds demo
2004-01-01
Five people are believed dead and dozens more wounded after gunfire erupted during a demonstration in the northern Iraqi city of Kirkuk. About 2000 Arab and Turkmen protestors marched on the headquarters of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK), one of the two main Kurdish factions, to demonstrate against a push by the city's Kurdish majority to incorporate the oil-rich centre into an autonomous Kurdish province. Protestors surrounded the building, chanting "No to federalism, Kirkuk is Iraqi" when clashes erupted.
I thought the general idea was that the Kurds are Iraqis, too?
Police said Kurdish fighters known as peshmergas opened fire on the demonstrators. Two people died on arrival at Kirkuk General Hospital, while a third died later of his wounds, hospital director Hashim Muhammad told AFP. Other sources quote another two died. A total of 31 people were wounded, five of them seriously, Muhammad said, adding doctors were operationg on the most serious casualties who were wounded in the head, abdomen and heart. Peshmerga guarding the PUK headquarters told Aljazeera's correspondent that the protesters had weapons and they were shooting at them (guards). However, protesters denied the allegations, saying they did not have any arms. "The peshmerga opened fire at the protesters," they told the correspondent.
The old unarmed protesters ploy, is it? Somehow I can't see a protest without a few AKs being involved...
Witnesses said US tanks and armoured vehicles quickly moved in to seal off the area, fanning out near the PUK offices and a local government building to keep protestors at bay.
"Is that a riot, sir?"
"I think it's a political discussion. Lock and load, just in case I'm wrong."
Representatives of Iraqi Shia leader Muqtada al-Sadr, backing the Turkmen, were present at the rally. Many chanted "Kirkuk, Kirkuk is an Iraqi city. No to federalism" and "We want the Kurds to leave Kirkuk".
"Thank you for your participation in our political discussion. Please leave your number with the peshmerga and we'll get back to you."
Police chief Shirku Shakir Hakim said he told the demonstrators to stay on the edge of the town to avoid clashes with Kirkuk's Kurds. The Arabs appeared to hail mainly from outlying towns around Kirkuk. Despite guerrilla attacks, Kirkuk, a volatile mix of Kurdish, Arab and Turkmen, has avoided serious confrontation, thanks to a city council representing all of the city's communities, with a Kurdish mayor and Arab deputy. "They are coming to protest from Hawija, Tarjil and Tuz Kharmatu more than from Kirkuk," said Police Colonel Burhan Tayyib Habib, speaking about outlying areas which the Kurds want to incorporate into a Kurdish federalist zone.
Posted by:Fred Pruitt

#11  Thx, guys! I'm actually easy: I want no state income tax, either mountains or ocean, and a high-speed connection. Ocean always costs more so you have to live pretty far out of town - which may preclude cable-modem and decent ADSL.

Frank - I liked the looks of Reno / Sparks - even read their newspapers for a week to get the feel of the place - then a guy in Thailand (on a BB, not in person) told me Reno was like an old-folks home nowadays. Not True? I know I'd love the terrain and weather.

Ship - I did a consult in Jacksonville (Barnett Banks) and IIRC they had great piney woods all around. There was a tall leggy blonde who made other details of my time on-station kinda hazy... She could do this gymnastic kinda thing and... I love it when that happens!

OP - I have those classic hazy memories of a certain concert in Red Rock when I was, um, much younger, lacking certain social strictures, and footloose. I think I love Colorado, but I can't be sure, heh. ;->

Funny what you use to measure things in your memory, no?
Posted by: .com   2004-1-1 4:58:46 PM  

#10   it's pool table flat south of Ocala... North FL elevation varies from sealevel to 320 ft
If you want elevation, good chances of excellent work (growing number of government contracts, if that interests you - SpaceCom's just over the next ridgeline), or the chance to rub elbows with other chipheads without having to put up with Cilifornicatia, try Colorado Springs. Of course, I'm prejudiced, but any city that starts out at 6000' and has an outpost on top of Pikes Peak can't be ALL bad. Little short of ocean, but there's a gorgeous beach just a hundred miles south of here... Maybe stop by on your way through, if you head off anywhere else.
Posted by: Old Patriot   2004-1-1 4:06:35 PM  

#9  .com it's pool table flat south of Ocala... North FL elevation varies from sealevel to 320 ft... quickly. Of course for most folks that's still pool table flat.

Posted by: Shipman   2004-1-1 3:24:15 PM  

#8  .com: Carson City/Reno is my recommendation - close to Sierras/Tahoe and still near big cities. No state income tax either, as I'm sure you've researched. I'm San Diego born and raised, but my family's from NV (Fallon, Fernley, and CC)
Posted by: Frank G   2004-1-1 2:16:14 PM  

#7  Ship - Yep - working down the list... North of Orlando, eh? But, but, it's so FLAT!
Posted by: .com   2004-1-1 11:44:57 AM  

#6  No income tax in FL .com and the smarter Bush is running the show. Just stay north of Orlando.
Posted by: Shipman   2004-1-1 9:55:17 AM  

#5  Seafarious - Eeewww!!! State Income Tax territory! I've been paying Fed & Cal taxes all along - you don't get a pass unless you're small potatoes! Mebbe we can meet somewhere in the middle - y'know, what those moron coastal elitists call "flyover territory." At the moment, we're both surrounded by 'em! An old biz acquaintance has been making noises about going to Virginia - McLean / Reston - to drum up something, but that would fit a Prog Mgr / Proj Mgr (him) far better than a web apps weenie (me) so I haven't thought much about it. He's an ex-crypto type, so you'd prolly get a kick out of him! I'm gonna try to start up some trouble in NV, I think. If that doesn't look good, I'll go either to TX, FL, or AK and check them out. I was looking at SeaTac - until I found out that there was sufficient support for a local Palestinian newspaper. Grunge & Aged Hippies - wotta mix, eh?
Posted by: .com   2004-1-1 5:04:45 AM  

#4  .com ... Drop me a line if you're planning to come any further East ... say, 'round DC/Baltimore? Casinos aren't as good, but you'll get to see where your tax money would go, if you had to pay any...
Posted by: Seafarious   2004-1-1 4:48:27 AM  

#3  SteveW - Happy New Year! It rolled over just about an hour ago here...

Re: Partitioning -- I think you're dead right - and it's an insightful read! I didn't see that key until you pointed it out. Cool runnings, bro, nice catch!

I made it to LA and am finally connected, as of yesterday, I missed RB for much of the last week. I'm really enjoying the food and the fact that everyone's speaking English, heh. I recall how, in Jeremiah Johnson, Redford's character explains his being agog when he says, "It's been a long time since I had so much of the English language spoke at me." I concur! I'll hang here for a coupla weeks then mosey along to NV. After Saoodi, I want a little decadence, so I think Vegas is next! Now, if I could only get re-synched on the local time! BTW, Laficornia is even weirder than I recalled...
Posted by: .com   2004-1-1 3:56:09 AM  

#2  .com (first -- happy new year wherever the hell you are these days!) I don't expect Iraqi to remain a single nation-state either, but for the Kurds sake they can't be the ones pushing for an autonomous state. The Turks (and probably the Iranians) will go nuts. They have to be "forced" into it; Sistani or somebody will have to make the first move and then they'll reluctantly agree.
Posted by: Steve White   2004-1-1 2:33:28 AM  

#1  After more than 500 years living under the heel of oppressors and being screwed over by Western powers, it's not good, but not terribly surprising that the Kurds feel so possessive of their home ground. They demonstrated they "get it" regards capitalism and tolerance through all the years of the No-Fly zones. Sad that this occurred - they have to get smarter about it or they might lose out again.

The presence of Sadr-ites (and probably asshats from the Sunni Triangle) is a little surprising, but not that violence resulted with them there nor that the "demonstrators" ignored the police chief and sought out confrontation. It's time to slap this 'tard down and arrest him and all of his lieutenants as seditious enemies of the Iraqi state.

Personally, I don't expect Iraq to remain a unified state - and even a Federation might be beyond their grasp, given the centuries of hatred and oppression. Custom probably won't allow them to grasp it for a few generations - and by then they won't even consider it.
Posted by: .com   2004-1-1 1:19:09 AM  

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