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Africa: North
Think the Bush Doctrine encouraged Qaddafi to dump his WMDs? You’re wrong says Carnegie Inst.
2003-12-21
EFL
The White House portrayed Libya’s promise to abandon weapons of mass destruction programs as affirmation of President Bush’s hard-line strategy on arms proliferation and suggested the U.S.-led war in Iraq helped convince Muammar Gadhafi that he should act.
Seems pretty obvious to me, but then I'm just a dumbass with a website...
Some arms control experts, however, point to what is known about how and when the agreement came about and say that Libya’s turnaround offers proof the United States should shift tactics in dealing with North Korea, Syria and other nations. A greater commitment is needed, they say, to the kind of patient but firm diplomacy that worked with Libya.
appeasement is the only way!
We should bomb Kimmy's house and kill his daughter? Seems kind of drastic...
"The president is trying hard to portray this as a victory for his strategy," said Joseph Cirincione, director of the Carnegie Endowment for International Socialist Worker’s Party Peace’s nonproliferation project. "But when you look at this, it’s almost the opposite of the Bush doctrine."
of COURSE! up is down, down is up; makes perfect sense in never-never land
"War is peace," you might even say.
Announcing the Libya deal, Bush invoked the ass-kicking of Scumbag #1 Iraq war that brought down Saddam Hussein as he issued a flat warning of "unwelcome consequences" for countries that do not follow Libya’s lead.
Uncle Sam: "who’s next?"
White House officials promoted Friday’s Libya announcement as vindication of Bush’s decision to make war on Saddam, even though banned weapons, Bush’s prime public reason for waging it, have not been found.
They haven't been found in Libya yet, either. But Sammy was found. In a hold. Covered with flies and shit.
As a result, Britain pushed successfully for the lifting of U.N. penalties against on Libya, a sprawling desert country in northwest Africa.
thanks again to TB for helping us carry the load, and for whispering a quiet word in the mook’s ear
Many analysts say the war’s aftermath has proved so difficult for the United States that other countries probably view U.S. military force as an unlikely option elsewhere right now.
QUAGMIRE!
"Right now" doesn't last forever. After we're done with the quagmire in Iraq, we'll likely find ourselves in a quagmire somewhere else, like Iran or Syria. Muammar might not have wanted us to go through the inconvenience of a quagmire in Libya.
"The plan was that Iraq was to be a message for everyone to either fall in line, or else," Cirincione said. "The problem is this threat is not very realistic."
iraq is a complete failure, finding saddam is the final proof! don’t you see?!?!
Iran, however, signed an important accord last week to open its nuclear facilities to international inspections.
they see the writing on the wall, even if it ain’t in farsi
The words were "Mene mene tekel upharsin..."
That breakthrough was the result of months of European-led negotiations that took a pro-engagement position toward Tehran. The United States had supported threatening Iran with U.N. sanctions.
of course, it was the u.n., france, and sanctions that REALLY did it; just coincidence that the other regional asswipe has been hiding out in a hole
"The administration is changing the policy, in fact, without changing the words," Cirincione said.
"maybe if i keep saying it, someone will buy into it"
"They relied more on carrots than sticks," Cirincione said. "And it worked."
what part of ’carrot and the stick’ does this idiot NOT understand?
I hope they Carnegie Endowment's not paying this guy too much.
Posted by:4thInfVet

#13  We should bomb Kimmy's house and kill his daughter? Seems kind of drastic...

Gotta dance with the girl that brung ya, as The Man said.

On a related note, we used to this cadence in the service:
Hey Kaddhafi
look out your window
see your daughter
your french FRIED daughter
pick up your weapon
etc., etc.,

Hey, it's funny when you're 19.
Posted by: 4thInfVet   2003-12-21 7:10:50 PM  

#12  How does one become an expert on weapons proliferation without having detailed knowledge of the region and the major players?
Posted by: Fred   2003-12-21 5:05:10 PM  

#11   it was the u.n., france, and sanctions that REALLY did

Yep, and my WIN button is keeping interest rates low.
Posted by: Shipman   2003-12-21 4:55:49 PM  

#10  #7 -- Cirincione is an expert on weapons proliferation. He is certainly not a person who would be employed in secret discussions with Qaddafi or anyone else in the Middle East because his knowledge of the region, its history, and its major participants is limited. In sum, he defines the term "pointy-headed intellectual".
Posted by: Tancred   2003-12-21 4:04:17 PM  

#9  Iran, however, signed an important accord last week to open its nuclear facilities to international inspections.

If they say that, they're lying. Iran has pledged to sign the agreement, but hasn't yet, saying they dont want to fall into a dastardly American trap.

But, hey, lies in the service of the UN aren't lies, are they?
Posted by: Robert Crawford   2003-12-21 3:46:57 PM  

#8  Tibor #5: You beat me. 4 Sep Telegraph archive money quote:
A spokesman for Mr Berlusconi said the prime minister had been telephoned recently by Col Gaddafi of Libya, who said: "I will do whatever the Americans want, because I saw what happened in Iraq, and I was afraid."
Moaner Daffy less like Saddam than he looks? 'Course, families of Lockerbie dead probably see him as 9/11 survivors see OBL. It is just so damned tough to fix a busted rep!
Posted by: Glenn (not Reynolds)   2003-12-21 3:33:02 PM  

#7  There is only one interesting question in all this: How much does the Carnegie Endowment pay this guy? Everything he says is so banal and predictable, if it's more than a dollar a year, it's gross overpayment.
Posted by: RLS   2003-12-21 3:20:08 PM  

#6  I think the ass clown misses a vital point - Mumu negotiated with the US and Britain. If soft power was the answer, the US would have been excluded from the negotiations. Kofi Annan, Mr. Charmin, would have been a party to the negotiations not a guy on the outside looking in. Anyone know what "vital role" the UN played in this?
Posted by: Super Hose   2003-12-21 2:48:14 PM  

#5  If this Carnegie guy is right, why did Col. Gadhafi call up Berlusconi a few months ago and say "Help me. I don't want to be the next Saddam"? Sounds like sour grapes to me. A guy from an organization with "peace" in it's name can't very well credit "war" with the expansion of the peace, all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding.
Posted by: Tibor   2003-12-21 2:04:07 PM  

#4  4IV You forgot one: "Freedom is slavery."

My mistake, of course it should have been in there. In addition, "Almost the opposite" really means 'complete vindication of', you just have to able to spin at around 10k rpm.


ps. thanks for cleaning up my sloppy markup-job, football and editing don't mix
Posted by: 4thInfVet   2003-12-21 1:54:33 PM  

#3  Iran, however, signed an important accord last week to open its nuclear facilities to international inspections.

I'm thinking of one sure way to open the facilities...
Posted by: Raj   2003-12-21 1:51:14 PM  

#2  4IV You forgot one: "Freedom is slavery."
Posted by: Glenn (not Reynolds)   2003-12-21 1:49:36 PM  

#1  Heh. Reading the article, I got the impression Cirincione had to work very hard to restrain himself from crediting Madeline Albright and Bill Clinton for Qaddafy's capitulation.

I also get the impression he's worked very hard to avoid acknowledging a simple reality: diplomacy with a determined adversary works a lot better when coupled with a credible threat of force. And that threat remains very credible, notwithstanding any difficulties in getting Iraq squared away.
Posted by: Dave D.   2003-12-21 1:44:33 PM  

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