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| Iraq |
| Bush: Saddam Deserves ’Ultimate Penalty’ |
| 2003-12-17 |
| WASHINGTON (AP) - Saddam Hussein deserves the ``ultimate penalty’’ for his crimes, President Bush said Tuesday, putting the United States sharply at odds with Europe and the United Nations which adamantly oppose the death penalty. Not again! A day after saying his own views about Saddam’s fate were unimportant, Bush decided to step forward and publicly state his opinion, a position that could carry considerable influence in determining the punishment of the deposed Iraqi leader. The administration blames him for killing 300,000 people. ``Let’s just see what penalty he gets, but I think he ought to receive the ultimate penalty ... for what he has done to his people,’’ Bush said. ``I mean, he is a torturer, a murderer, they had rape rooms. This is a disgusting tyrant who deserves justice, the ultimate justice.’’ As Fred said, give him a fair trial, and then hang him. Even while expressing his views, Bush said Saddam’s punishment ``will be decided not by the president of the United States but by the citizens of Iraq in one form or another.’’ He said he doesn’t see a need for an American role in Saddam’s trial, a process that Iraqis are ``plenty capable of conducting.’’ I guess the "international jurists" shouldn’t pack their bags yet. The president distanced himself from possible interrogation methods used to elicit information from Saddam, other than to say that ``this country doesn’t torture.’’ We sure don’t smash people’s teeth, electrocute their genitals, and beat the soles of their feet with rubber-coated iron bars. I do seem to recall someone, somewhere who was doing that. Bush also defended the intelligence that he used in citing weapons of mass destruction in Iraq as a main reason for going to war. Asked about the emphasis now on alleged weapons ``programs’’ instead on possession of weapons themselves, Bush remained firm about his prewar assessment of the threat Saddam posed and insisted the world and America are safer because of the war that toppled him. ``What’s the difference?’’ he said. ``If he were to acquire weapons, he would be the danger. That’s what I’m trying to explain to you. A gathering threat, after 9-11, is a threat that needed to be dealt with.’’ He needs to say that louder, about 100 times. In the case of Saddam, the death penalty issue could cause friction between the United States and Europe. All 15 member nations of the European Union have abolished capital punishment, and they often The head might pop off the Belgian ambassador. He might end up taller as a result. Britain’s top representative in Iraq, Sir Jeremy Greenstock, said his country would not participate in a tribunal or legal process that could lead to execution. U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan also has said the world body would not support bringing Saddam before a tribunal that might sentence him to death. Oh well, no UN observers at the trial. Too bad, so sad. British Prime Minister Tony Blair’s spokesman said that although Britain opposes the death penalty, it would have to accept an Iraqi decision to execute. Nod nod, wink wink, nudge nudge. Members of the U.S.-appointed Iraq Governing Council have predicted a quick trial and a quick execution for Saddam. The U.S. occupation authority suspended using the death penalty, and Iraqi officials have said they will decide whether to reinstate it when a transitional government assumes sovereignty, scheduled on July 1. "Ahmed! Clear the legislative calendar for July 2nd. We’ll have business to discuss!" Diego Ojeda, EU spokesman on external relations, wouldn’t comment specifically on Saddam, but said, ``We believe there are no circumstances that can justify the death penalty.’’ Guess we have different beliefs. But Australia’s Prime Minister John Howard, who sent troops to fight in Iraq, said he would support the death penalty for Iraq. ``If it were imposed, absolutely,’’ he said. |
| Posted by:Steve White |
| #20 Although the death penalty is too good for him, it's definitely what he should get...and soon. For a man who meted out the death penalty to thousands, only the death penalty is suitable. It's Biblical, it's Koranic and until lately, it was considered "civilized" if done after a fair trial by jury as it is in this country. (This reminds me: Are the Iraqis into juries? And if so, how would they be chosen?) Actions have consequences, something the Liberal Left would love to pretend isn't true. (Look at how our own Liberal judges have let John Wayne Hinckley have the ability to walk around even after he tried to kill the President of the United States and put his press secretary in a wheelchair for life.) Furthermore, I don't want Saddam alive to be used as bait or leverage for a "rescue" or "deal" by his loyal Baathis "insurgents" and other assorted IslamoFascist killers. Israel's had nothing but trouble with the Paleostinian murderers they've put in prison. There's a saying "where there's life, there's hope." In Saddam's case, that means nothing but trouble. As long as he draws breath, he's alive to be the focus and worse, the symbol of terrorist killing, murder and activity. It was good that the Arab world saw him looking like a homeless bum, but it will conclude the lesson to show that he is mortal, just like the rest of us. |
| Posted by: Jennie Taliaferro 2003-12-17 8:44:32 PM |
| #19 No, Spandau prison (the building Hess was in, not the citadel) was torn down. On the premises a shopping mall was built. As for the death penalty... I don't believe that "death" is a penalty. We don't know what death means. They did know this in former times and that's why the death sentence was carried out with utmost brutality. Still, let the Iraqis decide. No punishment will match the crime. Eternity is a long time. Whether Saddam finds this out tomorrow or in ten, twenty years hardly matters. Allah can wait. |
| Posted by: True German Ally 2003-12-17 8:05:42 PM |
| #18 Some folks on the left have been saying for months that you can't impose western-style democracy on the Iraqis and that you have to let the Iraqis develop a system consistent with their own values, etc. But the first time an issue comes up that gores their ox, the same folks start insisting on the application of their own version of Western values. "The death penalty! How barbaric those Iraqis are!" |
| Posted by: Matt 2003-12-17 5:37:57 PM |
| #17 I'm inclined to agree with the President. If the new council decides to execute the guy, that's up to them. The whole point is that U.S. forces threw out Hussein's dictatorship, then subsequently nabbed the guy they were looking for. That part of the mission has been accomplished, and no amount of hemming and hawing by administration critics can change that fact. |
| Posted by: Bomb-a-rama 2003-12-17 4:31:30 PM |
| #16 Semi OT. Does Spandau (the prison) still exist? 60 years in semi-solitary seemed to have worked in the Hess case. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2003-12-17 3:37:41 PM |
| #15 Steve, I think that's the uniform of their Minister of Defense. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2003-12-17 3:14:55 PM |
| #14 The bra would make him the brunt of jokes everywhere..... Or help him become the next president of Liberia. |
| Posted by: Steve 2003-12-17 2:41:07 PM |
| #13 Chuck, Looked at your link. Yes I think Saddam would look good in one of those new bras. But not as near as good as Neve Campbell (nice!) in the pic..... Oh! you mean the next picture under it? Of the shreadder? No that would be too quick and painless. The bra would make him the brunt of jokes everywhere..... |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2003-12-17 1:42:58 PM |
| #12 funny comments all! Fred's made me feel a bit sick though. "Picture him as an honorary citizen of Paris." so sad because it's true. |
| Posted by: B 2003-12-17 12:39:59 PM |
#11 I would suggest the ZTL 100. A European product, somehow even more fitting. Photo here.Depending our your specific application and unique operation parameters, we deliver the right size machine, with the right components for any application. Call today for a complete and comprehensive application analysis and quote. |
| Posted by: Chuck Simmins 2003-12-17 12:11:54 PM |
| #10 I was in favor of a quick trial and speedy execution. But I like the direction that B has taken. I would expand on the humility portion by making him cleaning toliets or something in the new Iraqi Council Chambers. A meek and humilated Saddam would not be a martyr but the butt of MANY Arab jokes for years to come. But I suspect that the Iraqi Council will want a pound of flesh (or all of it) from this 'man/animal.' |
| Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) 2003-12-17 11:41:01 AM |
| #9 Kofi, the Vatican and the Do-Good-Losers-of-America(TM) will all shriek and rip their garments B These folks wear Armani -- they're more likely to "do a Kerry" and rip someone else's garments. |
| Posted by: snellenr 2003-12-17 11:30:06 AM |
| #8 I'm not in favor of torture, even for him. Send him to the vet. This vet Come to think of it, hanging him from those huge "crossed swords" (if they're still standing) would be the ultimate in "timely end". |
| Posted by: Old Patriot 2003-12-17 10:33:51 AM |
| #7 B The lefties didn't know how to handle it yet with Noriega. They've been practicing. Sammy in long-term storage will look more like Mumia. Picture him as an honorary citizen of Paris. I have no cruel streak. I'm not in favor of torture, even for him. Send him to the vet. |
| Posted by: Fred 2003-12-17 9:08:11 AM |
| #6 This is an interesting moral dilemma that GW is placing before the world community, which is entirely consistent with his own words and belief with respect to the freedom and libery of men. If a free Iraq is permitted to trial and judge Saddam even to execution, then the UN and the ICC has no valid justification to step in and take over, either in this or future cases. And if emerging free countries have no need for these institutions, then what these institutions have become are societies designed to validate totalitarian states and protect dictators from harassment. And those individuals and organizations that support these international causes have decided that all forms of social order that deny human rights are preferrable to human freedom. They turn the world upside down and reverse the meaning of language because the biggest enemy of human rights is now the largest and strongest beacon of human libery. |
| Posted by: john 2003-12-17 9:07:10 AM |
| #5 Seem to remember that hanging was good enough for those at Nuremburg........either way, let the Iraqis do w/him as they will. Until then, bust out the sodium pentathol and see what moron-boy knows...... |
| Posted by: Jarhead 2003-12-17 8:20:15 AM |
| #4 I think he should be treated as a mad dog - put down. Nothing rectified by torture or revenge. Just removed. But...I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep (even though I'm not sleeping now) if they slowly lowered him into a vat of acid leaving just enough of him to be aware that he's being fed into a shredder. Yawn..yes, perhaps I am tired. That Being Said I'm going to have to disagree with my fellow RBers on this one. The death penalty will direct all the moths to his flame. Kofi, the Vatican and the Do-Good-Losers-of-America(TM) will all shriek and rip their garments (please send a check or money order to the address to help us now!). The left will busy their meaningless lives by painting sympathetic Sadaam posters in their garages. Give him the Noreiga treatment. It will be worth it just to deny them all their parade. Just let him rot like the animal he is. Killing him is too dignified, to ceremonial. Let the people look at him and laugh and say.."well look what we have here..if it ain't the Great Nebuchadnezzar." It will be far, far, more slow and torturous than the acid could ever be. |
| Posted by: B 2003-12-17 4:17:00 AM |
#3 Carefully chosen words. GWB, of course, WILL be misquoted later. I think he ought to receive the ultimate penalty ...That's an opinion. I hope POTUS is allowed to think. "...decided[,] not by the president of the United States ..."That's not. GWB can enforce his right not to decide, let the Iraqis do so. Heh. "Oh well, no UN observers..." C'mon. Seriously think the Iraqis would change venue to Nicosia? I hope IGC is smart enough to just keep talking and delay any trials until after they go out of business. |
| Posted by: Glenn (not Reynolds) 2003-12-17 1:46:58 AM |
| #2 Let me get this stright. According to the U.N. Rape squads and rape rooms are ok. Murder and mutaliation is ok. Genocide is ok. But the death penalty for a mass murder is not ok? |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2003-12-17 12:28:13 AM |
| #1 They would have kept Hitler alive. These sprouts are diseased. |
| Posted by: Anonymous2U 2003-12-17 12:27:12 AM |