You have commented 339 times on Rantburg.

Your Name
Your e-mail (optional)
Website (optional)
My Original Nic        Pic-a-Nic        Sorry. Comments have been closed on this article.
Bold Italic Underline Strike Bullet Blockquote Small Big Link Squish Foto Photo
-Short Attention Span Theater-
Hateful words a war crime
2003-12-04
EFL
With a trio of guilty verdicts yesterday, the U.N. tribunal for Rwanda has established that men armed only with words can commit genocide.
Now -- where do we file against the Palestinian school books and plays as well as the Hamas Declaration of Principles?
"This is the first time that journalists have been convicted for their participation in genocide, and I think it’s a wake-up call to hatemongers everywhere that they can’t incite people to commit genocide or ethnic cleansing," said Reed Brody, legal counsel to Human Rights Watch. "If you fan the flames, you’ll have to face the consequences." All three defendants said they were protected by freedom of speech. But Judge Pillay noted in her decision that it was "critical to distinguish between the discussion of ethnic consciousness and ethnic hatred."
What’s good for Rwanda should be good for Palestine as well.

Actually, I have large trouble with this as worded. The way it's stated, it trivializes genocide, the way Voices in the Wilderness trivialized WMDs when they equated sanctions with them. The definition becomes distorted, eventually losing all shape, until it's meaningless. The concept's formed illogically, so even though the end result is correct, the implications for future decisions along the same lines are bad — the "good decisions making bad law" syndrome.

If I tell you you're ugly, that your Mom wears combat boots, and that your sister gives change, I haven't assaulted you. My offense lies in the realm of civil discourse, and you're justified in making similar remarks about my looks and my family, but not in poking me in the eye.

On the other hand, if I make similar remarks to a mob and attribute the cause for your social lacks to your ethnicity, religion, hair color, or what have you, and suggest it would be a ducky idea for the mob to hang you, burn your house down, and steal your worldly goods, that's incitement, not civil discourse. Incitement's no more covered by the concept of "free speech" (something our domestic Muslim organizations forget) than is lynching, arson, or robbery. The speaker is equally culpable with those who actually do the crimes. Just ask Julius Streicher, or Doctor Ley.

But words aren't genocide. Hacking people to death with machetes in large numbers is. Gassing them is. Herding them into camps and shooting them to death is.
Posted by:SamIII

#7  Still a narrow line that can in fact be crossed. "Hitler should have killed all the jews" expresses a personal opinion and is protected, no matter whether you agree or not. "There's a jew named Nauman living down at 23 Chestnut St. Go get cans of gasoline and a rope and burn him out and lynch him", isn't protected. A direct verbal threat of bodily harm against someone is considered assault, even if you never lay a finger on the person.
Posted by: Slumming   2003-12-4 3:34:32 PM  

#6  I think this decision is at odds with current US law. Under Brandenburg v. Ohioa 1969 Supreme Court case and Collin v. Smith a seventh circuit panel decision, you have a right to spew hatred against a group. But directing people to commit specific acts of violence is not protected speech.
Saying that Hitler should have finished all the Jews is not something the state may forbid or proscribe. But putting up posters with the name and addresses of named individuals accompanied with instructions about killing is no part of free expression.
Posted by: Anonymous   2003-12-4 2:21:49 PM  

#5  "words aren't genocide." Factually correct but beside the point. There have always been specific limits to free speech. Even a staunch constitutionalist like Hugo Black agreed that you couldn't cry "fire" in a crowded theater. If you do and someone dies, you've committed manslaughter. If you're a member of the KKK and scream "kill the n*ggers and the Jews", you've incited to riot, and if someone dies, you can be held accountable. If you blatently advocate killing tens of thousands of people, you've incited to genocide. If people die, you should be hung from the nearest tree.

Of course, this ruling will never be applied to the palestinians, only the israelis who fight back in self defense.
Posted by: Slumming   2003-12-4 12:45:47 PM  

#4  In this particular case, it wasn't as abstract as all that. These thugs were broadcasting specific incitements to the genocide, including specific names of those to be killed. I don't doubt some nitwit will try to overgeneralize, but it will be a real stretch from what happened here.
Posted by: VAMark   2003-12-4 12:30:14 PM  

#3  RC, Unfortunately you are probably correct. Look for this to be brought out after the next school shooting (as long as its by a conservative) - they will attempt to apply this to 'Talk Radio' or one of the other alledged 'hate-mongering' press.

Do you think this will be applied to Palistine by the UN - who cant bring itself to condem a deliberate act of murder against inncent civilians?

Now that would definately set off my suprise meter!
Posted by: CrazyFool   2003-12-4 8:32:36 AM  

#2  Guys, the next application of this will NOT be against the PA. I'm thinking they'll try to apply it to someone or some organization in the US.
Posted by: Robert Crawford   2003-12-4 8:22:47 AM  

#1  "good for Palestine as well"...well said!
Posted by: B   2003-12-4 8:15:34 AM  

00:00