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| Iraq |
| Marines Slated for Iraq Troop Rotation |
| 2003-11-06 |
| WASHINGTON (AP) - The Marine Corps, which played a central role in toppling Saddam Hussein last spring, will return to Iraq as part of a U.S. troop rotation approved by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld on Wednesday, officials said. I wondered if this would happen. Choices were 1) activate more Guard units, 2) bring in the Turks or 3) send in the Marines. Since the Marines’ departure from Iraq in September, the military effort to stabilize and rebuild Iraq has fallen almost entirely to the Army, plus multinational units led by Britain and Poland. The 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit recently began anti-smuggling operations in the Persian Gulf coastal area in southern Iraq. But no Marines have been doing stability operations, such as working with Iraqi civilians on rebuilding projects or hunting for fugitives loyal to Saddam, since the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force departed south-central Iraq in September. Also included in the next U.S. rotation will be thousands of newly mobilized National Guard and Reserve troops as well as active duty Army units such as the 1st Cavalry Division from Fort Hood, Texas, and the 1st Infantry Division in Germany, according to officials who discussed the matter on condition of anonymity. No National Guard combat brigades will be called on, beyond the three already mobilized from North Carolina, Arkansas and Washington state to prepare for deployment to Iraq next year. The extra Guard and Reserve troops to be mobilized will be combat support forces such as military police. Instead of relying almost exclusively on the Army to provide reserve forces for support, the Pentagon intends to mobilize specialists from the reserve components of the Air Force and Navy, too. Interesting force mix. On Capitol Hill, Gen. Peter Pace, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said troop orders were being issued Wednesday and Pentagon officials planned to publicly release details on Thursday. Pace said members of Congress were being briefed on the plan Wednesday. He declined to give reporters details. Pace said that by May the Pentagon expects to have just over 100,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, a drop of 30,000 from present levels. The Pentagon also hopes to have about 170,000 Iraqi security forces by then - compared with about 100,000 now - and two multinational divisions of about 12,000 each. If the Iraqi units work out this might be ok. The Pentagon has struggled to set the troop rotation for 2004 because of the Bush administration’s inability so far to persuade its international partners to contribute significant troops. Turkey had offered to send thousands but has balked in the face of Iraqi political opposition. The Army has shouldered most of the burden of attempting to stabilize Iraq. It has been stretched thin by multiple overseas commitments, including anti-terrorism efforts Afghanistan as well as Iraq. The first major Army unit to be replaced in Iraq next year is the magnificent 101st Airborne Division, which played an important role in the march to Baghdad and has operated mainly in northern Iraq since then. When the Army announced in July an outline for the next troop rotation, it said the 101st would be replaced by a multinational division to be identified later. Because that international force has not materialized, the Pentagon has been forced to call on other U.S. forces to fill the gap. It appears the Pentagon will replace the 101st with a smaller group of forces, in part because the area in which it operated - northern Iraq - has been relatively stable and peaceful. Some units that will return home in the next rotation will not be replaced. This includes a brigade of the 82nd Airborne Division, as well as the 173rd Airborne Brigade. As a result, the total number of U.S. troops in Iraq is likely to fall to near the 100,000 mark next spring. That compares with about 130,000 there now. Also coming home in the next rotation will be the 4th Infantry Division from Fort Hood, Texas, and the 1st Armored Division from Germany. And in the meantime, we have to thump the Ba’athists. |
| Posted by:Steve White |
| #38 djh - Thanx, if we ain't making you former Leathernecks proud then we ain't doing our job! "Once a Marine Always a Marine" - Semper Fidelis Brother! To all: I know I can count on you hard chargers to watch our "six" back here in the land of the BIG PX! I'm going to hit the rack now.....good night Chesty Puller wherever your are.... ;) |
| Posted by: Jarhead 2003-11-6 10:13:27 PM |
| #37 Jarhead, take care of yourself. Feel free to post what you see or think whenever you're close to a connection. |
| Posted by: Fred 2003-11-6 10:09:20 PM |
| #36 Jarhead, you take care of yourself. I am a former Marine (seven years) and damn, do you make me proud to be an American and a Marine. SEMPER FI! |
| Posted by: djh 2003-11-6 8:40:47 PM |
| #35 Thanx Shipman. Gungo Ho actually means "work together" in Chinese, it's also a battle grunt or describes a highly motivated individual - but I like your dad's definition better! |
| Posted by: Jarhead 2003-11-6 8:00:47 PM |
| #34 Jarhead, good luck. And like my Dad says Gung Ho* *I never been to China but he says it means Pray For War. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2003-11-6 5:28:54 PM |
| #33 In case this hasn't been posted somewhere else already, this piece by Ralph Peters is a good read. |
| Posted by: Bomb-a-rama 2003-11-6 5:11:13 PM |
| #32 Thanx Craig, A hearty Semper Fi & Semper Hard back to you bro! Snell - I'm originally from Detroit bro, so I know all the good arab swearwords! LOL. Seriously, I'll fill you in when I get back to the operating forces on what we're doing to get prep'd to deal w/them. .com - I go high & tight my friend. I went "Mr. Clean" (sans the earring) one time in 29 Palms. I'm starting to lose some hair up top and am not exactly a tall guy, so yeah, Mr.Clean will be my look in the near future. Thanx for asking, if I get over there - I will ask for some good blades bro!. To the rest: Thanx for all the support, thoughts, and prayers. Like I said before, I'll be here (stateside & on R-Burg) until at least this coming summer. I'm not due to rotate back to the operating forces until June '04. I'll probably see sand-land in late '04 or prolly '05. I'm damn proud to be a U.S. serviceman, an officer, and a Marine. It's an honor to protect our country and defend the freedoms of all you fine Americans. Wish I could say the same of a lot of people I run into back home. I'm not an expert on everything going on over there but will give y'all the straight scoop when I can. I hope and pray we don't do this thing half-assed. Too many good young American mofo's are depending on our national leaders to go ball's out and handle business from their end - we'll do the rest if we're allowed to. That's where you guys come in. Stay on your elected officials to make sure they're letting us do our job. Complacency kills Americans & failure is not an option. If you ever see a servicemen in the airport, bus station, or wherever thank'em for their service - means a lot to these kids believe me. If we're there to win a war let's go win it. Schwarzkopf (sp?) once descibed himself neither a hawk nor a dove, he said he was an owl. Once an owl makes a decision he goes full force without restraint to accomplish it. I hope we're going full force. |
| Posted by: Jarhead 2003-11-6 3:36:47 PM |
| #31 Fact is no matter how bad ass units in the Army might be nobody has a reputation world wide like the Marines and the comments on the Small Wars Manual are exactly right, the Marines have a lot of experience in this kind of war, its a good choice. |
| Posted by: Yank 2003-11-6 3:12:42 PM |
| #30 "which apparently shocked the residents who had not scene that type of response before" Can you say one-front war? Fuck Turkey. The triangle has gotten a pass far too long. Long overdue to bring the war home to Fallujah and the rest - a real one, not the shooting gallery described. Jarhead's attitude will make the point beautifully, methinks. ;-> |
| Posted by: .com (RoPMA) 2003-11-6 2:57:14 PM |
| #29 MSN had a good article on Falluja the other day that backs up Jarheads point. If you look on a map you can see that Falluja is a pretty important focal point, being on the main highway between Bahgdad and Syria/Jordan. Apparently this city was missed during the war and basically had no military presense. By the time the 3rd id sent some people in they have basically been chased out of the town multiple times. Most heavy fighting lately has been at Falluja. The article stated that the Army boys were basically driving around in their APC's getting shot at. Well now the 82'nd airborne is there and they appear to have a new attitude that matches Jarheads methods. When the Mayor's office was torched a couple weeks ago the 82'nd airborne showed up and held the office for 2-3 days (which by that point was burnt out) out of pure stubborness. They basically flattened any house in which incoming fire came from which apparently shocked the residents who had not scene that type of response before. Sad to say the situation is still pretty dire, since it was 82'nd airborne guys that were in that helicopter crash last week. I bet you one of the first spots you Marines will be heading is Falluja to keep up the pressure. |
| Posted by: Patrick 2003-11-6 2:24:04 PM |
| #28 Not that you guys don't believe Jarhead, but some Marine buddies of mine who were in Nasiriya (sp?) during the war said pretty much the same thing. The locals would come and ask for such and such, the Marines would deliver. Bad guys would try to take a sucker punch and they would get leveled. Also the point he makes about patrols is exactly what they would say. Part of the problem is the 4ID is a heavy unit. They set up checkpoints by parking an M1A1 and wrapping concertina wire around it. Not exactly highly mobile you know. I'm not positive but I'd bet most of the Army casualties are from Guard/Reserve units and heavy units. I wonder the percentage of their losses vs say the 101 or 82nd Airborne? Like jarhead said, it's just not their thing (4ID included). Anyways, rotate the heavy units out (get some rest so we can take it Syria), get the Marines and more MP units in-country (triangle specifically). Also keep training those Iraqi cops and military. The situation is NOT nearly bad enough to warrant wholesale reactivation of the Iraqi army. IMHO. |
| Posted by: Swiggles 2003-11-6 1:52:32 PM |
| #27 Hey, the HeadBlade / Headslick offer is great - only $15 and no Shipping chg thanks to the mfg offering the Opn AC guys a discount. And on the Sale Packages page, there's a Refill Kit that's a good offer, too. So one of each sound like a good start today! JH - you a shaved guy? LOL! Your other head, smartass! |
| Posted by: .com (RoPMA) 2003-11-6 1:34:42 PM |
| #26 Way cool - Thx! I guess every well-equipped trooper needs a matched set in that hellhole! |
| Posted by: .com (RoPMA) 2003-11-6 1:16:38 PM |
| #25 Jarhead, Damned! You and your fellow servicemates make me so proud to be American. God bless you and your family. Semper fi! |
| Posted by: Craig 2003-11-6 1:08:55 PM |
| #24 Thanks guys, appreciate your generous support. Heck, you fellas would bring a tear to a glass eye! LOL. I will definitely send you my FPO address. But like I said, it will be a while yet. Until then, you know the rest - we'll still have much fun clowning on jihadis, silly mullahs and them kooky North Koreans. |
| Posted by: Jarhead 2003-11-6 1:06:58 PM |
| #23 Jarhead: hope you'll be able to stay in touch when you go in-country. Curious whether you're seeing many changes (eqpmt, etc) based on some of the lessons learned readouts after the war, and whether you (or your unit) is getting any language training. |
| Posted by: snellenr 2003-11-6 1:06:30 PM |
| #22 Sure can--it's http://www.operationac.com/, and they're now sending heaters as well! :-) |
| Posted by: Dar 2003-11-6 1:04:26 PM |
| #21 What Dar said. Give me an e-mail or snailmail address and you and your unit'll have letters from a whole pack of Cub Scouts. |
| Posted by: Mike 2003-11-6 1:02:41 PM |
| #20 Dar, can you dig up that URL again? |
| Posted by: .com (RoPMA) 2003-11-6 1:02:08 PM |
| #19 Jarhead--Yeah, definitely be sure to leave your FPO with some of us. I'll be happy to send over some goodies and reading material. Been doing it for some time now for a handful of guys (remember Bodyguard?) and it's the least I can do to show my appreciation for what you all are doing. |
| Posted by: Dar 2003-11-6 12:57:18 PM |
| #18 "Until then the resident knuckle dragging redneck jingoist will still be posting to the mighty R-burg." Woot! Woot! LMAO! Hey, if you get there before November and give Fred some means of contact, I promise I'll send you an AIR CONDITIONER! No joke. You tell him /me how to get it to you and it'll be there. I donated big to the website Dar posted that was sending A/C units some months ago. There is nothing on this earth like summer / fall in the sand lands. I smoke, but almost quit because of the Saudi summers - 120F in the shade / 135F in the sun - and lasted well into October. I'm projecting here, but I can't think of anything you won't already get that would do as much good, except maybe the baby-wipes everybody asked for - cuz you'd actually be able to sleep! I once swore to myself I'd never sleep in a puddle of my own sweat again - and haven't... if that sounds familiar, then take me up on the offer. I'm serious. |
| Posted by: .com (RoPMA) 2003-11-6 12:47:04 PM |
| #17 Amen |
| Posted by: Frank G 2003-11-6 12:26:07 PM |
| #16 Jarhead: Good luck, good hunting, get home safe, and stay in touch. |
| Posted by: Mike 2003-11-6 12:18:44 PM |
| #15 Thanks Ptah. Say one for our families as well please. They need it just as much if not more then us. No such thing as an atheist in a fox hole! ;) B-A-R, right on. Goes hand-in-hand w/their self-loathing, U.S. is always wrong dogma. It's lost on them that there are actually countries out there who are damn racist, ethnocentric, xenophobic, and don't cherish life like we do. i.e. basically the whole M.E. |
| Posted by: Jarhead 2003-11-6 12:04:39 PM |
| #14 The Small Wars Manual can be found in pdf format here: http://192.156.75.152/sw_manual.asp It specifies that it is the 1940 edition. I have no idea if there are more recent editions. |
| Posted by: BH 2003-11-6 12:03:14 PM |
| #13 God bless the marines! I'm praying for everyone there, and I'll put in some extra for you, Jarhead. |
| Posted by: Ptah 2003-11-6 11:39:26 AM |
| #12 LH, you bring up something I forgot to mention in my last long-ass post. Our C.O.'s, Public Affairs folks & those who liaison w/the local leaders usually harp one theme to them about us. They call it "No better friend, no worse enemy." i.e. - You need something, we'll help to the nth degree, (fixing schools, fixing infrastructure, speaking english w/the kids, helping out orphanages, handing out chow, etc.) but if you can't keep your folks in line - we turn the dogs loose & start wiping shit out. |
| Posted by: Jarhead 2003-11-6 11:34:59 AM |
| #11 Thanks, Tu. I still have another 6 mos here in S.C. to go before going back to the operating forces. Probably be seeing sand-land in late '04 or definitely in '05. Until then the resident knuckle dragging redneck jingoist will still be posting to the mighty R-burg. |
| Posted by: Jarhead 2003-11-6 11:25:21 AM |
| #10 They mistake kindness for weakness - it's a cultural thing like somalia. If they mess w/you - you never turn the other cheek. They don't understand that shit. Most westerners fall for that, you can't think like a westerner or a good Catholic when dealing w/them. This is the concept that a large majority of the anti-war folk don't seem to get. |
| Posted by: Bomb-a-rama 2003-11-6 11:15:21 AM |
| #9 Good luck, Jhead. You be careful over there. |
| Posted by: tu3031 2003-11-6 11:00:13 AM |
| #8 NMM, looking forward to it. I hope they send us to the triangle as I hear that place sucks the most ass ;) We don't box are selves up in APCs or due the firebase mentality as per our Army bro's. We patrol out in the populace and they get to see us up close & personal. Somedays we'll be friendly (pass candy to the kiddies, kiss babies, fix minor crap), the next day its back to being hitler youth nazi mother-f*ckers. (learned that from Brit vets of Derry, Ireland) Keep'em off guard, constantly change our patrol routes, times, tactics, etc. Make them think we're crazier then a bunch of sh*t house rats - that's the deal. Watch Blackhawk down or read the book and you can glean more of what I'm saying. Half the battle (or more) is a mental game. Shipman makes a great point about the SW Manual - great read if you guys get a chance. I'm not trying to bang on my Army bro's, my old man was 101st in 'Nam & is die hard airborne. I love those guys and the 82nd, the Rangers, and my boys in SF. I think its a lot of the 'leg' outfits & N.Guard that are getting it bad. Keep the N.Guard fellas out as much as possible imo. Put them up north or way down south in the more secure places. I appreciate the weekend warriors but this isn't their gig. Put us in the shit w/the 101 & 82nd. If we get fired on its sop to call indirect fire on suspected un-friendly positions. No f*cking around w/these folks. They mistake kindness for weakness - it's a cultural thing like somalia. If they mess w/you - you never turn the other cheek. They don't understand that shit. Most westerners fall for that, you can't think like a westerner or a good Catholic when dealing w/them. You can bet there's gonna be a helluva return salvo if we take fire. I posted last week about a buddy of mine who leveled a village in Afghan just to make a point to the locals. (the village was empty of course, and most of the hostiles had left but he wanted to show what type of firepower 13 Marines could unleash) he said the intended affect was not lost on them. We definitely agree w/troop reduction for the obvious reasons (time away from family, another shithole country, op tempo, no beer, ugly women, etc.) The quicker we train up the local hard-chargin' Iraqis to police their own then that's only better for us. They obviously know who the local sh*t-heads are and can be heavy handed as hell w/them. Thus relieving us of the human-rights anti-mil propaganda for beating down assholes who probably deserved it anyway. (Not that I personally give a rat's ass, but its bad for our C-n-C) If we're gonna do this we need to do this shit right the first time. I don't want my 3-month old son fixing our screw ups 19 yrs from now. Everybody needs to jump on board because we're in there now - let's finish it now. Support the lads over there and their families here. We either fight this now no matter how nasty it gets or our kids & maybe some of y'alls grand kids do this op again in 15-20 yrs. I don't want that & don't think any other American does either. |
| Posted by: Jarhead 2003-11-6 10:08:29 AM |
| #7 "Time to to crack open the Small Wars Manual." Maybe a sense that what works best in Iraq is closer to USMC doctrine? Saw some articles saying that some of the success in the south was due not only to demographics, but to Marine approach to occupation. They may be good at killing, but theyre also keen on local politics, etc. |
| Posted by: liberalhawk 2003-11-6 9:44:39 AM |
| #6 If the 1st Armored is going back to Germany I hope it's just so they can pack up all the stuff they left and leave. |
| Posted by: Laurence of the Rats 2003-11-6 9:11:01 AM |
| #5 Time to to crack open the Small Wars Manual. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2003-11-6 8:02:59 AM |
| #4 My Sister-In-Law must die. I'm calling my recruiter. |
| Posted by: Super Hose 2003-11-6 7:44:09 AM |
| #3 Of course they're scared of the Marines--they think you have to kill a family member to get in--per last week's posts |
| Posted by: NotMikeMoore 2003-11-6 2:34:01 AM |
| #2 Should be interesting to see what happens when the Marines rotate in. I read some news articles which said that Iraqi combatants developed an aversion to attacking the Marines, as it tended to result in massive f*loads of rounds coming down range. Don't know if that will deter the Islamakazes, though. |
| Posted by: BH 2003-11-6 1:49:19 AM |
| #1 Jarhead what say you as to Marine deployment here? Any any mil people agree with troop reduction like this? Seems like the Rumsfeld lean and mean strategy has been adopted |
| Posted by: NotMikeMoore 2003-11-6 12:57:12 AM |