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| -Short Attention Span Theater- |
| Re: Energy |
| 2003-08-13 |
| Regarding yesterday’s thread about alternate energy sources, there are always complex factors that obscure the problems. For example, I believe that it takes something like 20 years for a solar cell to pay off the energy debt encured in its manufacture. IMHO we should let the market solve the problem. That’s what markets are for. Raise the price of energy, gasoline, electricity, etc. to their true value including geopolitical risks, polution, and ultimate depletion, and a thousand smart people and companies will go to work to find better answers. I wouldn’t be surprized to find that the best solutions are not among the ones we are debating. IMHO this is also a better way to promote energy effeciency than passing laws regulating car mileage. Politically it might be hard on whoever tried to impliment this, however. Hard to explain to someone filling up on the way to work that he’s paying some part of the cost of keeping the middle east sweet. |
| Posted by:Lynwood |
| #8 "Raise the price of energy, gasoline..." Just who should be in charge of raising the price? The government? (shudder) Boy, it sure sounds simple : "Hey, just raise the price!" How much more of a burden do you want to put on the poor or lower-income people who can just barely pay their gas bills now? |
| Posted by: Uncle Joe 2003-8-13 11:26:58 PM |
| #7 Hydrogen fuel?? But I thought car bombs were illegal! ;) |
| Posted by: Bomb-a-rama 2003-8-13 6:19:53 PM |
| #6 Right on, OP! The environmental community thinks that people are the enemy. We humans will all leave our footprint on the earth before we are recycled, so to speak. They don't mind locking up millions of acres, but they do want the natural experience. To get to remote parks in Alaska, they hire float planes burning dead dinosaurs in their tanks to get there, then they color pollute the whole scene with a rainbow full of nylon or other petroleum or gas derived parkas, tents, tarps, and sleeping bags. What hypocracy.... |
| Posted by: Alaska Paul 2003-8-13 5:47:55 PM |
| #5 Here's a story that turns the entire "environmental" community upside down - the very people who for years have been demanding "alternate energy programs" are now AGAINST one of those programs, because "it'll spoil our view". Thus we see the two sides of the debate: The rich and famous want us to change our ways, but they don't want to be inconvenienced by anything that helps meet that goal. In most countries, that's called rampant hypocracy. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot 2003-8-13 2:18:37 PM |
| #4 And unfortunately, it's as unrealistic to imagine eliminating or simplifying some of these regulations as it is to imagine a realistic price for energy. There is some evidence that the less the government tries to manage the market the better it works. Hard to convince a politician though. |
| Posted by: Lynwood 2003-8-13 1:37:28 PM |
| #3 It is nice to say 'let the market' solve the problem. However, it is misleading to ignore the many non market forces in the energy business. There are pollution laws & regulations, safety laws and regulations, tax laws and regulation. There is govt. funded R&D. |
| Posted by: mhw 2003-8-13 1:18:09 PM |
| #2 The market IS solving the problem. The biggest investors in hydrogen (aside from the government) are Texaco, Shell, BP, Chevron, Mobil, etc. All of them sit on the board of the National Hydrogen Association. Oil companies already produce hydrogen from natural gas. Ford, GM, Honda, and Toyota (I think BMW, too) all have functioning hyrogen vehicles on the road, today. Shell was supposed to install the first gas station-based retail hydrogen pump in DC this year. This all makes sense. The oil companies have a fuel distribution network in place. Car makers make cars. It is hard to understand why people find this surprising. Like it or not, hydrogen fuel is acquiring a life of its own. Somebody always comes back to point out that there isn't a distribution system in place, the cars are expensive, and there isn't enough hydrogen to replace petroleum yet. Of course not, it's just the beginning! Our first space flight was not to the moon. Television was pretty stupid, when there were no television sets to receive the broadcasts. Even Bush said, in the speech that appropriated funding for hydrogen research, that you and I might not drive one of these cars, but our grandkids will. People who think we are converting next week are no less unrealistic than those who think that because we haven't already, we never will. The professional industrial proponents of hydrogen fuel (including steely-eyed oil and auto execs) are not claiming that hydrogen will replace all other forms of power, or that a national transition is imminent... but they are investing R&D dollars into hydrogen every day. |
| Posted by: Mark IV 2003-8-13 12:35:11 PM |
| #1 Tried to yellow all of this, but didn't. *expletive deleteted* newbies. |
| Posted by: Lynwood 2003-8-13 11:18:24 AM |