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| Americans not ruffled by world’s contempt | ||||||
| 2003-06-20 | ||||||
| No skin off my fore... By Jennifer Harper THE WASHINGTON TIMES The rest of the world often entertains itself being annoyed with the United States. The opinion polls often show it. But that's nothing like American opinion of the global village. The inevitable experts say American scorn for foreign contempt is rooted in a fierce but amenable independence and an inner mettle. Experts can actually be right sometimes "What we think of ourselves does not depend on the opinions of others," says Matthew Spalding, director of the B. Kenneth Simon Center for American Studies at the Heritage Foundation. "And that is what it means to be self-governing, as our founders originally intended. It gives us great confidence." Frankly we don't give a rat's ass
U.S. relations with the world are rife with complexities, though. People worldwide "actually like Americans, and they continually think of us, yet we barely recognize they exist," notes Mark Hertsgaard, author of "The Eagle's Shadow: Why America Fascinates and Infuriates the World." The attitude has changed a little after September 11, "but there's still a self-centeredness. We see everything through the prism of our own experience. We've been self-contained for a long time. But we're not the only country to do that. I can't think of a more self-centered nation than China." Mr. Hertsgaard says the "if they don't like it, they can lump it" mind-set held by so many Americans could imperil the war on terrorism, as well as the global economy and other challenges, insisting that "we can't do it alone." But he concedes that the U.S.-centered attitude has a positive side. It stokes the conviction that "we can change things, that we can do better, that life can be different." Magnified by the war on Iraq, U.S. ire with waffling allies and rogue governments was particularly sharp earlier this year, prompting the New York Times, among others, to examine the "anti-Europeanism" phenomenon in the country. "The current stereotype of Europeans in easily summarized," wrote Timothy Garton Ash in February. "Europeans are wimps. They are weak, petulant, hypocritical, disunited, sometimes anti-Semitic and often anti-American appeasers ... their values and their spines have dissolved in a lukewarm bath of multilateral, transnational, secular and postmodern fudge."
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| Posted by:Frank G |
| #21 Don't expect a reply from Aris,Mike.Awhile back,after Aris accused me of being a bigot and Francphobe(phobia is a fear of something I don't fear France I despise France)what he thought of Depinhead meeting with Arrafat,France's refusal to take action aginst HAMAS and never got an answer. |
| Posted by: raptor 2003-06-21 07:53:18 |
#20 Just as a guess, I'd say most Americans regard most other countries as either "arrogant" or "despicable." I agree with you, Frank. I certainly feel that way. Americans are called arrogant by snotty, self-absorbed EUroweenies who complain that we don't know enough about "the world". These are the same people who wouldn't know a Cherokee from a Sioux or an Alabaman from a Virginian, but get their knickers in a twist if I can't tell a Belgian from an Luxembourgian :). "The world" can bite me. When they care enough about America to recognize the good we do instead of latching onto any and every bad thing that America/Americans have ever done, then I'll care. If they ever stop and think about the American people and the nation as a whole as more than silly stereotypes that suit their id fueled hatred, fear and envy, then my ears will perk up when a citizen of "the world" talks. Until then, the hypocrites of "the world", can cram it with walnuts. |
| Posted by: Celissa 2003-06-21 02:10:49 |
| #19 chirp...chirp...chirp...chirp... |
| Posted by: tu3031 2003-06-20 22:51:01 |
| #18 "If the French and Germans had worked with us re Iraq, we might not have gone to war since Saddam might have thought he was isolated." Bullshit. You can't have it both ways, you can't *both* claim that war was inevitable (and that's why inspections were a waste of time) and also claim that you might not have gone to war after all if only those nasty countries had allied with you. Right or wrong, the war had been decided. Inspections were being ridiculed and ignored, reports were being "sexed up" to increase the level of urgency they indicated... You weren't willing to leave Saddam in power, and there's no way he'd have willingly abandoned power himself. Right or wrong the war was going to happen. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2003-06-20 21:49:04 |
| #17 And Yank, your list isn't accurate. A small nitpick - It's not "Serbia" but "Serbia & Montenegro". And the countries like Portugal and Slovakia signed that declaration, so "Neutrals"?? About as much as Poland, I guess. And the Pope took a position against the Iraq War, so I don't think you can consider Vatican a "NEUTRAL" either. :-) |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2003-06-20 21:07:32 |
| #16 *rolling eyes* I don't think that the people participating in international politics discussions here need to try and show off their skills at geography. The question was about the skills of the Average Joe... Or the average student... But let me try my hand at this exercise: Texas, California, New York, New Jersey, Florida, Pennsylvania, Oregon, Virginia, West Virginia, S. Dakota, N. Dakota, Alabama, Missisipi, Louisiana, Georgia, Texas, Alaska, Hawai, Texas, Kansas, Utah, Indiana, Washington, Arkansas, Minnessota, Utah, New Mexico, Wisconsin, Wyoming, Vermont. 30 states without consulting a map... That's decent enough I guess - though my brother would be able to list all 50. And all your presidents as well. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2003-06-20 20:57:23 |
| #15 To continue the list THE NEUTRALS: Ireland, Portugal, Netherlands, Lichtenstein, Andorra, Papal State, San Marino, Slovakia, Serbia, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Switzerland, Austria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine. That's 18 more without a map. |
| Posted by: Yank 2003-06-20 20:07:11 |
| #14 liberalhawk> Not sure why you felt the need to keep bringing your Jewishness, but as a counterbalance I'll keep bringing up my height. And not sure why you felt that Italy is an "eagle" while Greece is a "weasel", when Greece probably did more to aid you in the Iraq war than Italy did. Is it all the posturing by Berlusconi? If it's style over substance you want then he's definitely your ally, otherwise he's noone's ally but his own. But I'm 1.75m, and I guess the opinions of 1.75m people don't count, I suppose. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2003-06-20 18:28:02 |
| #13 Americans not ruffled by world’s contempt Don't they realize that the Ruffled have Ridge's Department? |
| Posted by: Penguin 2003-06-20 17:16:17 |
| #12 If we cared what the Europeans thought we never would have left their countries in the first place. |
| Posted by: Becky 2003-06-20 16:06:58 |
| #11 Sorry, didn't mean to start this rant, but since we are all screwing off on a perfectly beautiful summer day (at least out my window)... My first comments represented my 50,000 ft view of education, and I still think it was a mistake to blend geography, civics and history into "social studies". Others say it far better than I, but the US educational system was the envy of the world for 100 years prior to the tinkering that took place in the "progressive" 60's. I lived through old math and new math and quite frankly am still waiting for the relevance during my lifetime of algebra or of long complicated word problems involving jets taking off from LA traveling at 380 MPH with a tailwind of 50 MPH while another jet lihts off from St Louis 1 hour later traveling 420MPH with a headwind of 25 MPH... Christ, I prefer leave that to American Airlines to figure out when the planes will pass for me... Anyway, the last of my kids are wrapping up HS and I have a fresh college graduate who also turned out bright enough to pursue grad school during this crappy job market, so I am about to pass off my concerns of our educational system to the next generation "as is". I am happy with the education my kids got, in public schools no less, but not happy enough to vote "yes" the next time the school district referendums up another trip to my wallet. |
| Posted by: Capsu78 2003-06-20 15:03:39 |
| #10 oops should been 4 more for 18 - well even us jew-intellectuals aint perfect, now is we? |
| Posted by: liberalhawk 2003-06-20 14:44:16 |
| #9 Aris - Bratislava, formerly Pressburg. 10 or 15 euro countries weasels - france, germany, belgium, luxembourg,greece. thats 5. New Europe - Poland, Czecho, hungary, romania, bulgaria, slovenia, albania, macedonia, bosnia. that 9 more other axis of eagles - Britain, Spain, Italy, Denmark. 3 more for a total of 17. Of course i know more, but cant categorize them as easily. But then Im a Jew-intellectual and so i dont count, I suppose. |
| Posted by: liberalhawk 2003-06-20 14:43:07 |
| #8 "My point: It is a mistake to compare what CountryX knows of the US, with what the US knows about CountryX, given the current dominance of the US in the world. " Eh, there are levels and levels of knowledge... One can't expect an American to know many details about CountryX, but one would expect him to be able to locate it roughly on the map... One perhaps couldn't demand he remembers the capital of Slovakia, but one should expect him to be able to list ten or fifteen european countries off the top of his head. Of course even I tend to forget things such as e.g. where Senegal is located, and until the country became a newspiece I didn't remember whether Liberia was on the western or eastern Africa, so I perhaps shouldn't talk either... |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2003-06-20 14:30:22 |
| #7 Capsu78 - I would strongly suggest that the decline of the American educational system is a product of dipshit morons growing up after their Hippy-Dippy and Anti-VietNam War demonstration daze to become the administrators, professors, and (from what I witnessed as a parent) authors of textbooks. I would, also, suggest that Jennifer Harper is just another "news outlet" flak and here she has merely snickered her way through a collection of factoids - neither enriching or informing any of us. It's just another turd in the currently fashionable bash-America sewage, even if it's subtle in this case. Nothing serious or remotely surprising in the whole lot. As an American I am confident that our system is, indeed, superior in far more respects than any other. Point by point, it's certainly possible to find something in some other nation's political and legal system you prefer, but in sum the US is the cat's meow. We have the widest range of freedoms - and remedies for grievances - ever assembled in one society. And we are taught (at least I was) that individualism is the key and eash of us is free to do almost anything we want - we need only accept responsibility for the results, good or bad. I'm glad the little Norwegian knew her geography. Don't like the fact that US school students are being short-sheeted? Then get involved. As a parent, I did - and it was a real eye-opener to find out that the texts (and the teachers and administrators) were riddled with inaccuracies, revisionism, foolish biases, and outright bullshit. It was certainly interesting, and rather fun, to fight the PC twits. My daughter and I had some very interesting conversations, believe me, during her school years. She turned out pretty damned well, I must say, in spite of the schools - and me. As for the Canadians, fuck 'em - they've gotten of far too lightly, IMHO. Sell 'em the moon - and let 'em freeze their asses off. |
| Posted by: PD 2003-06-20 13:42:59 |
| #6 Capsu78, I think you're wrong about the educational system. My grandparents' generation may have known more about other countries than the current generation, but they didn't care any more. In fact, you could argue that they cared quite a bit less (activism being much more fashionable these days). Come to that, most of my own personal grandparents didn't graduate from high school, which was true of many Americans in those days, and not in these. So it's not very useful to compare what was taught in high schools across the generations. On the other hand, I'll agree with you about the girls from Baywatch. |
| Posted by: Angie Schultz 2003-06-20 13:39:03 |
| #5 Speaking of Baldwin (Hodadenons post)- Did any of the folks who were threatening to leave the US if W. was elected ever do? I'm thinking of the mentionable known personalities and not folks from poets against the war. |
| Posted by: Jim K. 2003-06-20 13:02:50 |
| #4 Capsu78: American self-centeredness: I agree with Hertsgaard's statement about China. And, having lived for years in Japan, the same could be said about that nation. Your Norwegian exchange student: Great, now have them name all provinces of Canada. Or, all the states in Brazil. My point: It is a mistake to compare what CountryX knows of the US, with what the US knows about CountryX, given the current dominance of the US in the world. My favorite test when I have been confronted with similar stories in the past is, "Quick, name the current Japanese Prime Minister!" Japan is the second largest economy in the world, and producer of much of the products and culture experienced in the daily lives of people around the globe. Despite that, I am impressed when a foreigner, American or otherwise, actually knows something basic about that country... |
| Posted by: Carl in NH 2003-06-20 12:45:53 |
| #3 A question I would like to have seen the Beeb ask is "Do you favor immediate Merkin military disarmament?" |
| Posted by: Matt 2003-06-20 12:09:42 |
| #2 IMHO, America's "self centeredness" can trace some of its roots to the US educational system deemphisising subjects like Geography, History and civics in the 60's and replacing them with watered down composite classes. Case in point, once hosted a Norwegian exchange student for a year who was completely shocked that her 12 grade classmates could not locate Norway on the globe. She on the other hand knew the location of all 50 states and could make a pretty good run at naming most of the state capitals. And her English was better than most of the kids down at the Mall, which she attributed to American cartoons which were much better than "crappy norwegian" cartoons (her words). OTOH the rest of the world gets American fast food, pop culture and syndicated Hollywood...I am convinced many "Jihottie's" think they are fighting against JR, Bruce Willis and the girls from Baywatch. |
| Posted by: Capsu78 2003-06-20 11:57:28 |
| #1 Capsu78 - I would strongly suggest that the decline of the American educational system is a product of dipshit morons growing up after their Hippy-Dippy and Anti-VietNam War demonstration daze to become the administrators, professors, and (from what I witnessed as a parent) authors of textbooks. I would, also, suggest that Jennifer Harper is just another "news outlet" flak and here she has merely snickered her way through a collection of factoids - neither enriching or informing any of us. It's just another turd in the currently fashionable bash-America sewage, even if it's subtle in this case. Nothing serious or remotely surprising in the whole lot. As an American I am confident that our system is, indeed, superior in far more respects than any other. Point by point, it's certainly possible to find something in some other nation's political and legal system you prefer, but in sum the US is the cat's meow. We have the widest range of freedoms - and remedies for grievances - ever assembled in one society. And we are taught (at least I was) that individualism is the key and eash of us is free to do almost anything we want - we need only accept responsibility for the results, good or bad. I'm glad the little Norwegian knew her geography. Don't like the fact that US school students are being short-sheeted? Then get involved. As a parent, I did - and it was a real eye-opener to find out that the texts (and the teachers and administrators) were riddled with inaccuracies, revisionism, foolish biases, and outright bullshit. It was certainly interesting, and rather fun, to fight the PC twits. My daughter and I had some very interesting conversations, believe me, during her school years. She turned out pretty damned well, I must say, in spite of the schools - and me. As for the Canadians, fuck 'em - they've gotten of far too lightly, IMHO. Sell 'em the moon - and let 'em freeze their asses off. |
| Posted by: PD 6/20/2003 1:42:59 PM |