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| Europe | |
| Paris and Berlin prepare alliance to rival Nato | |
| 2003-04-28 | |
| EFL EUROPEâS self-inflicted wounds over Iraq will be on display tomorrow, when the leaders of France and Germany â dubbed the âAxis of Weaselsâ in America â start to try to lay the groundwork for a European Union military alliance that would compete with Nato. WUSS - Weasels United for Socialist Security At a meeting in Brussels with the Prime Ministers of Belgium and Luxembourg, President Chirac and Gerhard Schröder, the German Chancellor, want to clear the way for a common European defence system that would start with a core of volunteer states. As opposed to the usual EU-type coercion Although the Germans have qualms about a confrontation with Nato, the French are not hiding their aim to achieve their long-standing goal of unhitching the United States from European defence. This has become more pressing with the reported plans of the US to punish France for its stand on the war in Iraq by excluding it from Nato decision-making. "We're going down and we want you to volunteer to go down with us" Last night, however, Tony Blair gave warning to M Chirac against placing Europe as a rival to the United States, calling such a move âdestabilisingâ. In an interview with the Financial Times, he said: âI am not really interested in talk about punishing countries, but I think there is an issue that we have to resolve here between America and Europe and within Europe about
And to recover damaging records, files from countries they illegally supported Although Guy Verhofstadt, the Belgian Another provocation accusation? why don't you learn to respect your elders and shut up Despite denials from Paris and Berlin, the session looks like a manoeuvre by French-led âold Europeâ against the pro-Atlantic axis, led by Britain and Spain and featuring new EU states, which Donald Rumsfeld, the US Defence Secretary, called ânew Europeâ. Heh heh Rumsfeld can turn a phrase huh? Britain, which has the EUâs most powerful Armed Forces, was not invited. Nor were the leaders of the EUâs other main pro-Atlantic states â Spain, Italy and the Netherlands. Hmmm I wonder why that is? Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, said that the Brussels meeting ârisks sending a message of division about the the creation of a defence policy separate from Natoâ. Britain was adamant that the EUâs present security arrangement had nothing to do with a common defence, which was the domain of Nato, Mr Hoon told a French newspaper. NATO's dead - there's no reason for it anymore | |
| Posted by:Frank G |
| #17 Leaving aside the issue of how the EU army will be moved, one must wonder just what the army being moved will consist of? Omitting Britain, Old Europe's ground forces combined barely meet our division strength, and its entire navy is about equal to one carrier fleet. Its cavalry can't even be compared to ours. Its planes, artillery, tanks, missiles etc. are two generations out of date. EU is even further behind in tactics and training, and is utterly lacking a battlefield communications infrastructure, never mind the ability to use same in combat conditions. All the Ro-ro's in the world won't fix this. My real concern, and this is the meat of this comment, is the EU turning to the *Chinese* to buy off-the-shelf weapons. It is hard to contemplate Old Europe spending the capital to revamp its military industry to get back into the game (that would cut into social programs, don't you know), so if you want them and don't want to deal with the U.S., China is a place to go. (Russia is a possibility, but wouldn't honor the warranty. NK is too over-the-top, and its weapons are probably of dubious quality, just like its bad heroin that killed a bunch o' Japanese.) You saw it here first! Old Europe will buy modern weapons from China. Won't that do wonders for transAtlantic relations! |
| Posted by: tbn 2003-04-29 01:33:51 |
| #16 Donner. I read it. Glad everybody from there or over there doesn't have short memories. |
| Posted by: tu3031 2003-04-28 23:35:22 |
| #15 TU3031 FROM DONNER.POSTED ANOTHER COMMENTUNDER IRAQIS TARGET GEN.FRANK FOR BOGUS WAR CRIMES.YOU MAY WANT TO READ IT. |
| Posted by: donner 2003-04-28 21:50:45 |
| #14 An idea for naming the new alliance Middle Europe Real Diplomacy Entente |
| Posted by: KP 2003-04-28 15:56:08 |
| #13 Even Marx said you needed an industrial base for communism to work ("proletariat", remember?). Otherwise tou get a classic kleptocracy/dictatorship, a la Mugabe/Zimbabwe. One of the few things the crazy old bastard was right about. |
| Posted by: mojo 2003-04-28 14:45:24 |
| #12 Dar, it is so simplisme. That Soviet experience was run by Slavs, not the enlightened, educated, cultured French. Why, those silly Eastern Europeans thought they somehow knew what they were talking about when they supported the US! No wonder they couldn't make socialism work! It will be different this time. Mais oui. Oh, and that silly American cowboy idea that the only reason Europe could afford all that was because the US paid for troops to be stationed there! Such an unsophisticated idea. /sarcasm now switched off. |
| Posted by: Baba Yaga 2003-04-28 14:07:50 |
| #11 You mean that, conceivably, sometime in the future we might have to fight the FRENCH, BELIGIANS, AND LUXEMBOURG!? All at once?! Excuse me while I hide under my bed. What, were Andorra, Lichtenstien, and Monaco too busy to add their fighting might to this fearsome coalition? I don't include the Germans because they'd be nuts to go for this. I hope they realize that betting on the French to come through when the shit hits the fan might not be the smartest move they've ever made. |
| Posted by: tu3031 2003-04-28 14:01:10 |
| #10 I would love to see how their already overtaxed populace could afford to support any viable military rivaling the US and still maintain their womb-to-tomb healthcare, months of vacation, subsidized education, and unemployment benefits! Guess they didn't learn anything from the whole Soviet experience. |
| Posted by: Dar 2003-04-28 13:45:39 |
| #9 BORN IN LUXEMBOURG PROUD AMERCAN FOR A LONG TIME HELL LUX DOES NOT HAVE AN ARMY BELGIUM SIZE DONT BLINK OR IT IS GONE AND FRANCE DOES NOT HAVE A POT TO P...SSIN. |
| Posted by: donner 2003-04-28 13:24:16 |
| #8 italy has also expressed opposition. BBC states that even France and Germany want to keep it low profile - looks like they regret it now, but it was too far along to cancel meeting without embarassment, |
| Posted by: liberalhawk 2003-04-28 12:46:48 |
| #7 There's a CHANCE this could be a good thing, IF it means that the Europeans would actually be trying to become active in the world to help deal with issues like Iraq (or the Ivory Coast) and "do it right," but I'm cetainly concerned that it is, indeed, just a poltical "game" to attempt to increase the political of France in opposition to the U.S --- regardless of the situation. The ro-ro concept would fine for most types of "world police" interventions, and for any humanitarian aid missions. In fact, they could probably work them based on "spot charters" if they set up the contracts ahead of time. Of course, they'd have to limit the size of the ships IF they goal is widespread humanitarian actions. MANY of the world's ports won't handle the draft requirements of "main stream" merchantmen today. |
| Posted by: Ralph 2003-04-28 12:18:12 |
| #6 WUSS--- I thought it was Weasels United to Secure Socialism dorf |
| Posted by: Anonymous 2003-04-28 12:12:24 |
| #5 The other problem with the Ro-Ro boats is that they are unusable without sea control This is law. It is known as Rule Britannia. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2003-04-28 12:11:19 |
| #4 Air cover might also be a bit of a problem given the demonstrated (non)combat capability of the Charles De Gaulle. |
| Posted by: Matt 2003-04-28 12:07:40 |
| #3 The problem with the Ro-ro your boats would be finding a friendly port to unload at in a wartime situation. |
| Posted by: Alaska Paul 2003-04-28 10:54:36 |
| #2 Actually, Europe could fairly easily purchase a bunch of Ro-ro ships. These can be purchased commercially, it is not a specifically military design. That would give considerable sealift capability. They would be a very long way from having amphibious assault capability, but with a half dozen or so large ro-ro's a French or German division could be quickly unloaded at a friendly port. |
| Posted by: buwaya 2003-04-28 10:36:08 |
| #1 And these troops are going to reach their destinations how? Hitchhike? The U.S. has the only airlift capacity in the world, and the U.S. and Brits are about the only ones with any sealift capacity. Always remember, Belguim is a country about equally divided between Phlegms and Loons. |
| Posted by: Chuck 2003-04-28 09:48:12 |